Tyre Pressure warnings....danger of crying wolf too often

[mikebore]

Very interesting. It is as if they are saying that under some circumstances, and some vehicles, the tolerance is too tight. Obviously Honda have considered this at some time, for the facility to be available.

I am surprised that "Resetting system to NON OE settings" to widen the tolerance, has not been mentioned by anyone before.....perhaps implying it is a recent development.

[akh48]

Currently having problems with this at the moment. 

First time it happened was in February and I had no idea what the warning actually meant until I checked my handbook. When I checked my tyres it was easy to see which was the faulty tyre, called out AA who patched up, but as a screw was on the edge of tyre they recommended replacing within 100 miles, which my Honda garage did within the week as was going in for another issue.  I would like to think that they did what they should to recallibrate after fitting, but as they didn't even reset the warning light who knows!!

10 days ago the warning came on again on my way home late at night and although I had a quick check when I got home as it was dark I checked again the following morning.  No signs of a problem and garage recommended check tyre pressures and if ok reset the warning, which I did.  4 days later, no further issues until on the motorway and it came on again half way to my destination    On checking pressures again no signs of an issue so reset the warning. On way back same happened and when I got home checked again and pressures ok and reset. 

So far no further warning but barely used the car this week, but as car due in next week for another issue will get them to check this out as well as still under warranty. 

Glad I came upon this thread so I can see I am not alone.

[mikebore]

Sounds like you have a new tyre on one side (from the Feb screw) and an older one on the other side.

Depending how much difference in tread depth this could give you problems, as per my recent experience above.

I ended up replacing the opposite side so I had new on both sides, and still had to have the system adjusted to non-OEM tolerances.

[ColinS]

Mine went off last week for the first time.  But quite sensibly, knowing how many times it went off on the Jazz, I pulled in about 5 miles from home and reset it.  No further issues, got home and parked up on the drive.

I guess you are way ahead of me by now.  Went out later to put it in the garage.  Rear nearside was a flat as a pancake  .

So glad I invested in a space saver.

[mikebore]

Mine went off last week for the first time.  But quite sensibly, knowing how many times it went off on the Jazz, I pulled in about 5 miles from home and reset it.  No further issues, got home and parked up on the drive.

I guess you are way ahead of me by now.  Went out later to put it in the garage.  Rear nearside was a flat as a pancake  .

So glad I invested in a space saver.

  . Hence the title of the thread!

I am glad to have a space saver too, but admit I have never tried the goo on any car.

[Graham Smith]

I've had my 2016 Jazz for a couple of weeks now, and had the tyre pressure warning light come on twice. The first time, I was worried, and stopped at a tyre fitting place where they checked the tyres and their pressures. All was OK! So later on I googled it and found the way to reset the warning ( it's also on P443-444 of the manual ) and I did that. A couple of days later it came on again and I reset it again. I was discussing this with my son, who is an engineering graduate, and he told me how the system works. He said that the system doesn't monitor the actual tyre pressures, but instead it detects possible tyre pressure imbalance by comparing the rotational speed of the wheels. A partially deflated tyre will cause a wheel to rotate slower than its twin on the other side, so hey presto, the light comes on - and doesn't go off till you re-initialize. The thing is, that rotation imbalance can happen for other reasons - such as wetness on the road, bumps etc. (His Volvo did the same thing). So there you are - fret not, though it's a good idea to check the tyre pressures anyway.

[culzean]

I was discussing this with my son, who is an engineering graduate, and he told me how the system works. He said that the system doesn't monitor the actual tyre pressures, but instead it detects possible tyre pressure imbalance by comparing the rotational speed of the wheels. A partially deflated tyre will cause a wheel to rotate slower than its twin on the other side, so hey presto, the light comes on - and doesn't go off till you re-initialize.

The tyre that is losing pressure actually rotates faster than the good tyres, the decrease in the rolling radius means that it acts like a smaller diameter wheel and has to revolve faster for the same MPH.

[mikebore]

I was discussing this with my son, who is an engineering graduate, and he told me how the system works. He said that the system doesn't monitor the actual tyre pressures, but instead it detects possible tyre pressure imbalance by comparing the rotational speed of the wheels. A partially deflated tyre will cause a wheel to rotate slower than its twin on the other side, so hey presto, the light comes on - and doesn't go off till you re-initialize.

The tyre that is losing pressure actually rotates faster than the good tyres, the decrease in the rolling radius means that it acts like a smaller diameter wheel and has to revolve faster for the same MPH.

The biggest cause of different rolling speeds in normal use is going round corners, when the outside wheels have to rotate faster, which is why it basically works in straight line driving. I don't believe bumps and wet roads are a factor. The system does not respond that instantly.

The advice to "fret not" is what I did when I ignored the third (or was it the fourth) warning, and found a flat tyre next morning. The next time it went off was also a genuine slow puncture.

My experience with my daughters Kia, which has a pressure measuring system is that it is a lot less trouble. No calibration. When you get the warning, find the low pressure tyre (and there has always been one) and fix it.

[Graham Smith]

The tyre that is losing pressure actually rotates faster than the good tyres, the decrease in the rolling radius means that it acts like a smaller diameter wheel and has to revolve faster for the same MPH.

Yes - sorry, I got it the wrong way round

[Graham Smith]

The advice to "fret not" is what I did when I ignored the third (or was it the fourth) warning, and found a flat tyre next morning. The next time it went off was also a genuine slow puncture.

Well, of course.... I DID say check anyway. Which is what I did, and found nothing wrong.

[mikebore]

The advice to "fret not" is what I did when I ignored the third (or was it the fourth) warning, and found a flat tyre next morning. The next time it went off was also a genuine slow puncture.

Well, of course.... I DID say check anyway. Which is what I did, and found nothing wrong.

Yes you did  . Have you had any further warnings after two in the first two weeks?

After my problems following a slow puncture (genuine warning) followed by several false warnings after buying first one, then two new tyres (see recent posts), Honda reset my system to non OEM (= less sensitive) tolerances which stopped the false warnings. I am curious to know what kind if psi difference will now trigger my system....used to be be about 5psi.

[culzean]

The biggest cause of different rolling speeds in normal use is going round corners, when the outside wheels have to rotate faster, which is why it basically works in straight line driving. I don't believe bumps and wet roads are a factor. The system does not respond that instantly.

The advice to "fret not" is what I did when I ignored the third (or was it the fourth) warning, and found a flat tyre next morning. The next time it went off was also a genuine slow puncture.

My experience with my daughters Kia, which has a pressure measuring system is that it is a lot less trouble. No calibration. When you get the warning, find the low pressure tyre (and there has always been one) and fix it.

Yes the system must have a lag to allow for transient events like cornering.  One downside of the pressure monitoring system is cost and complication - as my brothers found out when they wanted to have steel wheels and winter tyres - you have to duplicate the pressure sensors and pay to have them re-programmed every time you swap the wheels over,  and all that adds up to quite a cost,  so people end up getting all season tyres which are a compromise.  Pressure sensors can also be damaged if you use foam or gunk in the tyres,  and jury is still out on battery life.

We have only ever had positive warnings and warnings we expected ( punctures or swapping wheels winter / summer ) - but then again we have MK2 Jazz and Civic ( the Jazz does not demure at a wheel change but the civic normally shows a warning within 2 or 3 miles due to slight difference in summer winter tyres, about 1MPH between the speedo and dashcam GPS speed display).   I guess they  played around with the MK3 TPMS and made it too sensitive.  One criticism of the ABS TPMS was that it would not tell you ( in the vanishing unlikely situation ) if all 4 tyres were losing air at the same rate ( OK some people NEVER check their tyres and natural leakage may result in a equal slow loss on all 4 tyres over a long period  )  but Civic does alarm when all 4 wheels are changed for ones a slight amount smaller / larger - so it senses when wheels rotating slower as well as faster - they could make system more sensitive by having more pulses per revolution of the wheel but maybe the ABS would not like that .

[mikebore]

The biggest cause of different rolling speeds in normal use is going round corners, when the outside wheels have to rotate faster, which is why it basically works in straight line driving. I don't believe bumps and wet roads are a factor. The system does not respond that instantly.

The advice to "fret not" is what I did when I ignored the third (or was it the fourth) warning, and found a flat tyre next morning. The next time it went off was also a genuine slow puncture.

My experience with my daughters Kia, which has a pressure measuring system is that it is a lot less trouble. No calibration. When you get the warning, find the low pressure tyre (and there has always been one) and fix it.

Yes the system must have a lag to allow for transient events like cornering.  One downside of the pressure monitoring system is cost and complication - as my brothers found out when they wanted to have steel wheels and winter tyres - you have to duplicate the pressure sensors and pay to have them re-programmed every time you swap the wheels over,  and all that adds up to quite a cost,  so people end up getting all season tyres which are a compromise.  Pressure sensors can also be damaged if you use foam or gunk in the tyres,  and jury is still out on battery life.

We have only ever had positive warnings and warnings we expected ( punctures or swapping wheels winter / summer ) - but then again we have MK2 Jazz and Civic ( the Jazz does not demure at a wheel change but the civic normally shows a warning within 2 or 3 miles due to slight difference in summer winter tyres, about 1MPH between the speedo and dashcam GPS speed display).   I guess they  played around with the MK3 TPMS and made it too sensitive.  One criticism of the ABS TPMS was that it would not tell you ( in the vanishing unlikely situation ) if all 4 tyres were losing air at the same rate ( OK some people NEVER check their tyres and natural leakage may result in a equal slow loss on all 4 tyres over a long period  )  but Civic does alarm when all 4 wheels are changed for ones a slight amount smaller / larger - so it senses when wheels rotating slower as well as faster - they could make system more sensitive by having more pulses per revolution of the wheel but maybe the ABS would not like that .

Thanks. I may be misunderstanding but you seem to be saying your Mk2 Jazz had TPMS. Mine didn't but was a low spec model.

I have been considering getting aftermarket sensors which trigger an alert on your phone for my wife's Mk1. Do you know anything about these? A month ago Halfords were selling a system at a massive discount and I was tempted.

[peteo48]

It's now nearly a year since I had my last false alarm. I had 3 in relatively quick succession and all completely false but all triggered by the same thing - a burst of motorway driving. The system is still operational from what I can see.

I guess I'll never know why it delivered 3 false alarms early in my ownership. However, if it does go off again, the passage of time since the last false alarm will mean I will take it seriously and check the pressures (which I do monthly anyway).

[culzean]

Thanks. I may be misunderstanding but you seem to be saying your Mk2 Jazz had TPMS. Mine didn't but was a low spec model.

I have been considering getting aftermarket sensors which trigger an alert on your phone for my wife's Mk1. Do you know anything about these? A month ago Halfords were selling a system at a massive discount and I was tempted.

The TPMS  ( pressure or ABS type ) was a legal requirement after a certain date so it may just be the age rather than the spec of the vehicle.

I don't know about aftermarket systems but read reviews and take out the really good and really bad ( one star) reviews, and put more weight on the reviews that go into detail rather than the ones that just say ' easy to fit ' or ' load of carp' and you get some idea if they work.