Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - 2020 => Topic started by: mikebore on June 14, 2019, 02:46:03 PM
-
These sound like the best thing since sliced bread:
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/wheels-and-tyres/michelin-crossclimate-is-the-first-summer-tyre-that-can-safely-be-left-on-all-winter/ (https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/wheels-and-tyres/michelin-crossclimate-is-the-first-summer-tyre-that-can-safely-be-left-on-all-winter/)
What about wear?
-
I'll see if I can find a YouTube video I watched a few months ago by a man who had fitted these to his Nissan Leaf - he was positively drooling over them. They had no adverse affect on the range of the car (critical in a low range EV like a 2015 Nissan Leaf), they provided good levels of grip and were quiet.
-
John Ratsey has these fitted on his HR-V:
Engine noise is not a great issue, it is more tyre and road noise.
Some tyres are better than others for noise. A few months ago I replaced the Michelin Primacy tyres (which were getting towards needing replacement) on my HR-V with Michelin Cross-Climates which run more quietly, particularly on concrete surfaces.
-
Brother has these on his Suzuki Grand Vitara and is happy with noise level, but has not been through a winter with any appreciable snow yet. He got them because his car has the pressure sensors in each wheel, originally got Nokian WR D4 on steel rims but had such a faff trying to get system to accept other sensors that he gave steel wheels and tyres to his son ( who has a Vitara as well, but does not mind the continual warning light ) and got the Cross Climates - his car has 4 wheel drive so they will probably be OK, even if not as good as dedicated winter tyres. We have steel wheels and Nokian WR D3 on our cars, I wax and polish the alloys with summer tyres on up before storing them over winter and they come out in spring all shiny and new, if steel wheels looking a bit the worse for wear after winter they get a wash an a touch up with Hammerite. Alloys take a pasting in winter, the salt really eats into anywhere it can get..
Tyre compounds have really improved in last 10 years and our winter Nokians ( after 4 winters October to March each year ) are still showing loads of tread. The Nokians are actually quieter than the Michelin ES+ I had for summers before switching to Avon ZV7 on Civic and Avon ZT5 on Jazz ( 15" on Jazz ) and give a smooth ride.
-
Have the SUV version on my Hyundai Santa Fe but only since March so have not have had any experience of bad weather. Impressions are quiet (apart from some wet roads and cornering hard) and great roadholding. I would recommend them on a 4x4 but would only consider on my Jazz if I needed all weather cover which I might not.
-
John Ratsey has these fitted on his HR-V:
They were flagged up in the Honest John long-term HR-V test as giving a better ride than the Primacy tyres fitted by Honda although I haven't noticed a significant difference in that respect. However, they are much quieter, particularly on concrete surfaces. I've had no issues with summer grip and I also like the prospect of the vehicle being a bit more sure-footed in the cold part of the year - I felt the Primacys were a bit lacking in that respect when I ventured out onto some snowy roads.
I'm wondering if there's a slight hit on the fuel economy as the sidewalls are a bit more flexible although with road conditions and weather also being significant factors in mpg it's difficult to be sure.
-
I have cross climates plus fitted to a 2012 jazz. When new the steering felt odd, but after a 1000 or so miles , ok. The plus points. Potholes are absorbed better. Wet braking is superb. Road holding very good. Not noticed any change in MPG. The big minus is that the tyres are only available with a load rating of 88 on the 15 inch rims. The standard tyres have a load rating of 84. The result is a tyre designed for a much heavier car is not as compliant, and you feel every imperfection in road surfaces. But come any snow, I think these tyres will get me home, compared to summer tyres. I see that Continental now make an all season tyre for the 15 inch jazz rims with the correct load rating of 84 now, so maybe a better bet for ride quality. Who knows !
-
Personally I would only think of cross climate type tyres if my car had the pressure sensors in the wheels ( like my brother had to on his Vitara) or if i didn't have room to store the wheels. The winter tyre / steel wheel combination is much better, especially if you have room for a full size spare, as you canuse a winter as spare in summer and vice versa. Your summer alloys stay pristine and you get better steering with summer tyres because of the circumferential ribs in the tread. All seasons are a compromise which works for some, but having used proper winter tyres on Jazz and Civic in snow in hilly Shropshire when the only other vehicles in sight were LandRover Defenders and tractors, and seen supposed 4x4 vehicles ( with summer tyres i assume ) sitting there with wheels spinning but going nowhere - should have seen the shock on the driver face when a 'normal' two wheel drive car went past them - priceless....
-
double post - no idea what happened
-
I don't understand why you would need pressure sensors for cross climate tyres. You just inflate them to the correct pressure as you would with any tyre.
-
I don't understand why you would need pressure sensors for cross climate tyres. You just inflate them to the correct pressure as you would with any tyre.
Every vehicle made since about 2012 I think has had to have ( by law ) a system to monitor tyre pressure.
Honda ( except for 2015 models which for some reason used pressure sensors ) use ABS pulse Tyre Pressure Monitoring System ( indirect TPMS ) which counts the speed of ABS sensor pulses and can tell if a wheel is rotating faster than it should ( when tyre deflates the rolling radius - distance between centre of axle and road gets less, so wheel has to rotate faster to keep same road speed ). With direct TPMS ( as was fitted to my brothers Suzuki Vitara ) there is a pressure sensor inside each tyre which transmits information to sensors on the car, when he tried to change to steel wheels and proper Nokian winter tyres he had problems with finding suitable pressure sensors that would talk properly to the car electronics. He eventually gave up and kept original Suzuki wheels fitted with Suzuki pressure sensors but had cross climate tyres fitted.
Look up TPMS in your Jazz handbook and it explains a bit about it, mainly how to reset it when it puts a picture of a flat tyre on your cars display...
The ABS pulse based system has no ongoing costs for the owner, the pressure sensor based system can get expensive as the sensors and batteries have a limited life and if you use the gunk to fix a puncture it burgers up the sensor.
-
I don't understand why you would need pressure sensors for cross climate tyres. You just inflate them to the correct pressure as you would with any tyre.
Every vehicle made since about 2012 I think has had to have ( by law ) a system to monitor tyre pressure.
Honda ( except for 2015 models which for some reason used pressure sensors ) use ABS pulse Tyre Pressure Monitoring System ( indirect TPMS ) which counts the speed of ABS sensor pulses and can tell if a wheel is rotating faster than it should ( when tyre deflates the rolling radius - distance between centre of axle and road gets less, so wheel has to rotate faster to keep same road speed ). With direct TPMS ( as was fitted to my brothers Suzuki Vitara ) there is a pressure sensor inside each tyre which transmits information to sensors on the car, when he tried to change to steel wheels and proper Nokian winter tyres he had problems with finding suitable pressure sensors that would talk properly to the car electronics. He eventually gave up and kept original Suzuki wheels fitted with Suzuki pressure sensors but had cross climate tyres fitted.
Look up TPMS in your Jazz handbook and it explains a bit about it, mainly how to reset it when it puts a picture of a flat tyre on your cars display...
The ABS pulse based system has no ongoing costs for the owner, the pressure sensor based system can get expensive as the sensors and batteries have a limited life and if you use the gunk to fix a puncture it burgers up the sensor.
So are you implying that the cross-climates would have a problem with Hondas rolling radius TPMS ? Any reason?
-
What culzean is saying is that with the Honda system you can switch between sets of wheels and tyres, summer and winter, as he does. With the other system you need a set of sensors in each set of wheels, making it a bit more expensive.
-
What culzean is saying is that with the Honda system you can switch between sets of wheels and tyres, summer and winter, as he does. With the other system you need a set of sensors in each set of wheels, making it a bit more expensive.
Can't quite reconcile that with what he said:
"Personally I would only think of cross climate type tyres if my car had the pressure sensors in the wheels"
For people who don't change wheels in winter there is no reason against cross-climate tyres with the Honda system... or is there?
-
For people who don't change wheels in winter there is no reason against cross-climate tyres with the Honda system... or is there?
No reason at all.
-
What culzean is saying is that with the Honda system you can switch between sets of wheels and tyres, summer and winter, as he does. With the other system you need a set of sensors in each set of wheels, making it a bit more expensive.
Can't quite reconcile that with what he said:
"Personally I would only think of cross climate type tyres if my car had the pressure sensors in the wheels"
For people who don't change wheels in winter there is no reason against cross-climate tyres with the Honda system... or is there?
As Jocko says it gets expensive if you have to buy pressure sensors to fit to extra wheels , and another expense when they have to be reprogrammed into system twice every year when wheels get changed, and again when battery fails, and if you have a spare with no sensor you will get a continual warning if you are using the spare. So for that reason extra wheels can get pretty pricey, but with ABS based system there is no extra expense except the original cost of steel rims ( which are cheaper than pressure sensors anyway).
Nothing against cross climate but as I said I would only consider them if my car was fitted with pressure sensors ( because of extra expenses listed above). I find having another set of steel wheels with winter tyres better because they save your alloys from winter salt, they are better on snow than cross climate, and summer tyres better in summer conditions, and while you are wearing winter tyres out you are not wearing your summer tyres out.
Don't think I ever suggested that Honda TPMS could not handle cross climate, it does not know what tyre is fitted and as far as i know every tyre except a solid one will go flat on the bottom as the pressure drops.
-
What culzean is saying is that with the Honda system you can switch between sets of wheels and tyres, summer and winter, as he does. With the other system you need a set of sensors in each set of wheels, making it a bit more expensive.
Can't quite reconcile that with what he said:
"Personally I would only think of cross climate type tyres if my car had the pressure sensors in the wheels"
For people who don't change wheels in winter there is no reason against cross-climate tyres with the Honda system... or is there?
As Jocko says it gets expensive if you have to buy pressure sensors to fit to extra wheels , and another expense when they have to be reprogrammed into system twice every year when wheels get changed, and again when battery fails, and if you have a spare with no sensor you will get a continual warning if you are using the spare. So for that reason extra wheels can get pretty pricey, but with ABS based system there is no extra expense except the original cost of steel rims ( which are cheaper than pressure sensors anyway).
Nothing against cross climate but as I said I would only consider them if my car was fitted with pressure sensors ( because of extra expenses listed above). I find having another set of steel wheels with winter tyres better because they save your alloys from winter salt, they are better on snow than cross climate, and summer tyres better in summer conditions, and while you are wearing winter tyres out you are not wearing your summer tyres out.
Don't think I ever suggested that Honda TPMS could not handle cross climate, it does not know what tyre is fitted and as far as i know every tyre except a solid one will go flat on the bottom as the pressure drops.
Yes indeed which is why I was surprised that you said what you did. I read too much into your words.
-
I have cross climates plus fitted to a 2012 jazz. When new the steering felt odd, but after a 1000 or so miles , ok. The plus points. Potholes are absorbed better. Wet braking is superb. Road holding very good. Not noticed any change in MPG. The big minus is that the tyres are only available with a load rating of 88 on the 15 inch rims. The standard tyres have a load rating of 84. The result is a tyre designed for a much heavier car is not as compliant, and you feel every imperfection in road surfaces. But come any snow, I think these tyres will get me home, compared to summer tyres. I see that Continental now make an all season tyre for the 15 inch jazz rims with the correct load rating of 84 now, so maybe a better bet for ride quality. Who knows !
Apparently Michelin uses exactly the same construction for all speed ratings and locad indexes - it's their 'geobox' concept. Whether that means everyone gets harsher ride, I'm not sure - but I put Cross Climates on daughters Golf and ride seemed absolutely fine, although it had Bridgestones on before and they're noted for having stiff sidewalls. Bear in mind XL tyres only carry heavier load at very high pressures - for any normal pressure they're actually slightly lower load than non-XL tyres.
I didn't monitor tyre wear on the Golf in great detail - they were on a couple of years so did 20K and still looked fine when the car was written off by an Argos van.
On our Jazzs we run the older one year round with 15" wheels and full winter Michelin Alpins, and the other with 16" Michelin Energy. Wear rate on the Winters is very similar to the summer.
I will say we drove the older one through the severe (by UK standards) winters of 2009/10 and 10/11 on its original 16" Dunlop SP2030's and it never gave a moments concern. But they are noted for being very soft tyres and they didn't last long.
I only ever drove the Jazz briefly on winters in snow once - I very nearly came a cropper by the lack of lateral grip on a tight bend. Wife now has a Tiguan with 4Motion and full winter tyres and I drove that across country on a snowy day in January - it would start and stop almost as normal, so it would be really easy to get carried away. Again, cornering required care that seemed out of proportion with the tyres other capabilities.
-
I have only ever used summer tyres (or as they were known back in the day - "tyres"), and have never had any problems in snow. I have been stuck when the snow was up past the number plate but in normal snow, which is not that common here now, I get through. I believe driving technique is more important than the tyres fitted.
Worst snow I have experienced recently was the Beast from the East as the attached video shows.
-
I have cross climates plus fitted to a 2012 jazz. When new the steering felt odd, but after a 1000 or so miles , ok. The plus points. Potholes are absorbed better. Wet braking is superb. Road holding very good. Not noticed any change in MPG. The big minus is that the tyres are only available with a load rating of 88 on the 15 inch rims. The standard tyres have a load rating of 84. The result is a tyre designed for a much heavier car is not as compliant, and you feel every imperfection in road surfaces. But come any snow, I think these tyres will get me home, compared to summer tyres. I see that Continental now make an all season tyre for the 15 inch jazz rims with the correct load rating of 84 now, so maybe a better bet for ride quality. Who knows !
Thanks very much for this. Lots of useful comments in the thread, but think you are the only one actually using them on a Jazz. Two big (for me) problems you mention:
Steering: I am very happy with my Mk3 steering. I really dislike the steering on my wife’s Mk1, and tolerated the better-but-not-good steering on my Mk2. I would hate to do anything which had an adverse effect on it on my Mk3. So after 1000 miles had you just got used the oddness or had it improved? How was it odd?
More sensitive to bumps on road: this would be a negative for me. I had some Dunlop Fast Response tyres my Mk2 which had the same effect.
Thanks for any comment.
-
Love the (or as they were know back in the day - "tyres"). When did we start calling "tyres" summer tyres?
It's an issue that gets people quite wound up. About 10 years ago (IIRC) Which said that, for most people in the UK, winter tyres were a waste of time - it caused quite a furore at the time with people saying that Which were advocating a dangerous course of action. They later modified their advice saying that, in some areas and in some conditions, winter tyres were justified.
For me they would be a monumental waste of money living in a flat area that rarely gets extremes of weather. Where we used to live, on the edge of the Peak District, I might well have considered them if I was still working.
-
Love the (or as they were know back in the day - "tyres"). When did we start calling "tyres" summer tyres?
I guess since all season and winter tyres became widespread. Like the difference between off-road and road tyres. If you go into a tyre place and just ask for 'tyres' I guess they would fit summers though, as they are most common, but if you went in middle of winter they may ask if you want winter or summer tyres.
There are plenty of hills where I live, just to get off our estate used to be a battle as it is a steep bendy road with no run-up. The jazz with summer tyres still did better than a lot of cars, my wife used to drive past quite a few stuck cars providing snow not too deep or icy. Now with Nokian winters it is a doddle, no more problem than driving on a wet road. You need to think about braking as well, even if you can get moving on summers in snow, the stopping distances can be horrendous, and going down a hill you may not stop at all.........
-
When did we start calling "tyres" summer tyres?
Where we used to live, on the edge of the Peak District, I might well have considered them if I was still working.
Quite agree I can never understand why some people feel the need to keep and change a full set of tyres to drive in winter conditions in the UK.
Years ago before the advent of summer and winter tyres I used to live and drive in the Lake District and even in the worst winter conditions it was very rare that driving became impossible and I never had any problems, maybe some people need to take lessons in how to drive in winter conditions.
-
Years ago before the advent of summer and winter tyres I used to live and drive in the Lake District and even in the worst winter conditions it was very rare that driving became impossible and I never had any problems, maybe some people need to take lessons in how to drive in winter conditions.
And before we had rubber tyres we used to have wooden or steel ones.............
My main reason for having steel wheels in winter is to save my alloys, got fed up of paying anything up to £70 a wheel to get them refurbished ( still got a set of Jazz Si 16" diamond cut alloys in garage with white worm corrosion under clear coat going under the paint as well - bought new 15" after market alloys after being quoted £100 a wheel for refurbishment of diamond cut after less than 4 years use, mainly down to winter salt - steel rims with Nokian winters cost £60 each and have lasted 4 winters so far and still quite a bit of tread). Get to use one of the 'out of season' tyres as a full size spare as well.
I used to drive in winter with rear wheel drive cars and a paving slab in the boot, compared to that a front drive car is loads better, but still does not help you stop any quicker..... like winter tyres do.
-
Since the Beast from the East, we have had no lying snow, here in Kirkcaldy. This past winter I barely saw a flake of snow, never mind drove in it. So for me, winter tyres are not a choice I would make.
-
but still does not help you stop any quicker..... like winter tyres do.
Oh winter tyres make you stop quicker, really and I always thought it was how hard I braked that made me stop quicker not the tyres on my car. ::)
-
but still does not help you stop any quicker..... like winter tyres do.
Oh winter tyres make you stop quicker, really and I always thought it was how hard I braked that made me stop quicker not the tyres on my car. ::)
No you got that wrong. It's the rear bumper on the car in front that does it.
-
Worth bearing in mind that the M and S rating ( mud and snow ) makes the tyres better on slippery temporary car parks set up in fields at various shows, hillclimbs, motoX etc. I have actually swapped from summers to winters a couple of times during 'summer' when I knew the carpark would be wet and did not regret it, watching other cars was an education - even my brother in his Nissan 4x4 with limited slip diffs struggled on grassy mud, just like 4X4 struggle on snow when they have summer tyres fitted, much to the drivers surprise.....and disappointment when a Jazz zooms past him.
Also better if you can stop quicker than car in front, if car behind you doesn't stop as quick as you do they are to blame if they hit rear of your vehicle.
-
One other thing to bear in mind with winter tyres is that although insurance companies have agreed to no longer charge any additional premium, there are still a small number of insurers that require you to declare them as a modification.
https://www.abi.org.uk/globalassets/sitecore/files/documents/publications/public/migrated/motor/abi-guide-to-winter-tyres-the-motor-insurance-commitment.pdf
-
One other thing to bear in mind with winter tyres is that although insurance companies have agreed to no longer charge any additional premium, there are still a small number of insurers that require you to declare them as a modification.
https://www.abi.org.uk/globalassets/sitecore/files/documents/publications/public/migrated/motor/abi-guide-to-winter-tyres-the-motor-insurance-commitment.pdf
Looking at that list only southern rock need you to tell them anything, the main proviso seems to be that they are of a standard size for the vehicle, not more expensive than normal tyres ( in fact winter tyres are often cheaper and certainly no more expensive than a lot of tyres, and steel rims are cheap as chips ) and in a roadworthy condition. Jazz Mk2 is homologated for both 185/55R16 and 175/65R15 sizes so providing you don't go mad and fit ultra low profile or real tall and skinny tyres there should not be a problem. I doubt your insurance company would be too dismayed if you stopped more quickly than the car in front and did not hit them but instead the car behind bumped you as they can blame that driver. Same if you stay on the road instead of skidding off into a ditch or wall or parked vehicle.
-
Been reading this thread as I'm about to get new tyres for my "other" car and probably going the Cross Climate route for that (FWD, 2002-vintage Passat). Everybody seems to be looking at the CC as 'winter' tyres but they are marketed as 'all seasons' tyres and, unlike a lot of others that are 'winter' tyres with 'add-ons' for summer use, the CC are 'summer' tyres with 'add-ons' for winter use. See ... https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/wheels-and-tyres/michelin-crossclimate-is-the-first-summer-tyre-that-can-safely-be-left-on-all-winter/ .... Can't see any real negatives in using them, especially bearing in mind that a lot of user review is subjective (as everybody experiences things differently) and that 'most' modern tyres are better than the driver is most circumstances. For me I'd like to see if the general concensus that they're quieter on the road bears out for me and any extra safety when on wet/cold roads is a bonus.
For the wife (who runs the Jazz) then *IF* they are safer/quieter on the road then they would be a no-brainer for her car as she just 'drives' and pays no attention to road conditions etc.
-
.... Can't see any real negatives in using them, especially bearing in mind that a lot of user review is subjective (as everybody experiences things differently) and that 'most' modern tyres are better than the driver is most circumstances. For me I'd like to see if the general concensus that they're quieter on the road bears out for me and any extra safety when on wet/cold roads is a bonus.
For the wife (who runs the Jazz) then *IF* they are safer/quieter on the road then they would be a no-brainer for her car as she just 'drives' and pays no attention to road conditions etc.
Same as my thinking, and, as I mentioned earlier, before Cross Climates existed we ran our Jazz on full Winter tyres year round. Worked fine and lasted well.
I remember an article some years ago (again, before All Season tyres became a thing) from Continental's Technical Director saying that if you had to choose one tyre in the UK then on balance a full winter would be best.
-
Had them on my Seat Ibiza. Good on all surfaces but didn't cope well with ice. Using Maxiss AP2 all seasons and Nexen N'Priz 4S previously on the Jazz 2009. For the money, they are lasting as long as Crossclimate and better value.
-
XL can be bit stiffer and noisier, but some of the all season tyres might be the most sensible choice for any car in certain parts of UK, I would imagine especially parts of Scotland.
I used to have Crossclimates on my Vectra C in the front only. One day, coming back from work uphill when it snowed over slightly, other cars we stuck sliding backwards and sideways and I was passing the strugglers relatively easily thanks to having good traction on the fronts offered by the all season tyres capability in snow. Others were most definitely using summer tyres only.
After this experience I purchased 4 Crossclimate+ for my mk1 225hp Audi TT quattro, with generation 1 haldex 4 wheel drive, and again I really appreciated that I had great traction on snowed over road. I was driving to work one morning & again the road were snowed over, came upon few strugglers who we driving at 30mph on straights were you do 60 when dry or wet normally. They were flashing me with headlights like mad after I have passed them with the TT on the straights. It felt safe to do 40+mph on the straights and they were slowing me down. I then enjoyed few entertaining sharp bends safely with the quattro kicking in. TT is fun and cheap as hell too :-)
I bought mk1 Jazz 2008 GE3 1.4i DSi CVT recently, as my fiancé wanted automatic. Every tyre on this car is different summer one so I was searching long and hard for reasonably priced and well performing allseason and came across Kumho Solus 4S HA32 185/55/r15, basically the most correct size for my original alloys. However, they are XL like the Crossclimates are. Might end up with slightly stiffer ride but according to reviews they last long and are more or less mid range when it comes to performance.
Since I intend to not to trash the Jazz like I was trashing TT at times, I don't think the extra stiffness will be much noticeable. What I did not take into account is they are going to be slightly heavier thus impacting few factors like fuel consumption negatively. But overall, for the safety and advantage they might offer in wintery weather conditions, and still great driveability in summer, I think they are going to be lovely compromise overall, for £65 per tyre balanced and fitted.
They look very similar to what I bought for my Fabia mk2 recently, the Goodyear allseason Vector gen 2 195/50/r15 (non XL). I think they are great, especially in cold wet weather and also get you safely through in snow. They are more or less same performance-wise like the Kumhos bar the aquaplaning performance which should be better on the Vectors. They were similar price too because 195/50/r15 is more common size.
Basically most of the Scotland benefits from all season tyres for sure, especially from the newer types like CrossClimates from Michelin as they 90% summer tyre with winter capability, meaning they will have traction in snow and CrossClimate 2 (gen 3 actually) rivals winter tyres too. Possibly safer in cold and wet than summer tyres too.
As long as I live in Scotland I will buy reasonably good allseason tyres only.
-
My main experience with Michelin Cross Climates after two years is that they are very good at keeping the snow away ;)
I haven't been able try them in any meaningful way, but I have been very happy them in normal conditions, year round. No disadvantages.
-
About a year and a half ago, when we ordered our Mk4, we decided we wanted it delivered on all season tyres.
First thought: of course the declared "champion" (https://em-content.zobj.net/thumbs/120/sony/336/trophy_1f3c6.png) Michelin Cross Climate.
Until the dealer told us that there is an equally good, if not better tyre available in the right size (185/55R16) for much less money: the Vredestein Quatrac.
Roughly about £30 per tyre (THIRTY pounds (https://em-content.zobj.net/thumbs/120/sony/336/pound-banknote_1f4b7.png)) cheaper than the Michelins... :o
Had these tyres mounted and now, in the second winter, very convinced of the qualities of this tyre.
Excellent on wet surfaces in particular, but also very good on dry surfaces, while the tyres in the snow (yes, we've had that here in Poland) also behave surprisingly well.
https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2022-Auto-Bild-All-Season-Tyre-Test.htm
In short: highly recommended!!! (https://em-content.zobj.net/thumbs/120/sony/336/thumbs-up_medium-skin-tone_1f44d-1f3fd_1f3fd.png)
-
Have run 5 years on Cross Climates Mark 1/
Great in snow/mud,,, pretty useless on sheet ice: ;D all but studs are!
Live on edge of country with narrow muddy hilly one track roads: 4x4s with summer tyres struggle (when the drivers actually bother to go on the verges incompetents )
Should see 45k miles from them.
(They are normally ok for noise but on regular ridged roads they can be awfully noisy - I have to slow down to 50mph.)