Author Topic: Auto idle stop on CVT, neutral and other issues.  (Read 15790 times)

peteo48

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2689
  • Country: gb
  • I have entered the Jazz Age
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2021 Honda Jazz Mk4 1.5 i-MMD EX
Auto idle stop on CVT, neutral and other issues.
« on: February 17, 2018, 11:53:45 AM »
I did find a thread on this but was advised to start a new one.

I am getting my 1.3 Mk3 SE CVT next Wednesday. I have a number of questions for my drive home with the new car.

1) Am I right in thinking that the auto idle stop (when in operation) stops the engine when you come to a halt at the lights with your foot on the footbrake and restarts the engine when you lift your foot off the brake?

2) At a longer stop - say a level crossing with 5 minutes at least before you can go - if you put the car in neutral, put the handbrake on and the auto idle stop cuts out the engine, how does it start again?

3) In question 2 above - would you be better to put the car in Park, turn off the engine, and start again?

All replies gratefully received. There does seem to be some debate out there!

JazzandJag

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 165
  • Country: gb
  • HR-V eHEV delivered February 2022
Re: Auto idle stop on CVT, neutral and other issues.
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2018, 03:31:03 PM »
Hi Peteo

To answer your questions in order

1) Yes, exactly as described.

2) As soon as you place the selector into neutral the engine restarts anyway.

3) This would be the only way to keep the engine off in such  a scenario as in general the maximum time before the engine restarts itself seems to be around 3 minutes.

Whilst I find that the system operates well, it can take a little getting used to and whilst the engine restarts readily, there is inevitably a split second delay. If you want to make sure that you are ready to go instantly you can turn off this feature temporarily by pressing the "A" button next to the selector or by selecting "S" mode which disables the stop-start function. Maybe best to use the "A" button on your first drive so you will not be distracted by this feature until you have gained a little more experience with the CVT.

Anyway good luck and welcome to the CVT club. There is no going back from here.....!

Nigel

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9356
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: Died from rust.
Re: Auto idle stop on CVT, neutral and other issues.
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2018, 03:33:44 PM »
There is no going back from here.....!
Why? Does the CVT not have reverse!  ;D

mikebore

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 605
  • Country: england
  • My Honda: 2016 1.3 Mk 3 SE CVT
Re: Auto idle stop on CVT, neutral and other issues.
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2018, 03:50:43 PM »
The autostop feature can also be controlled by the amount of pressure you apply to the brake pedal.

You can stop the car without activating autostop by not pressing the pedal hard. Then when the car stops moving the display will say "Press pedal harder for autostop"

Similarly, if autostop is activated, you can release the pressure to start the engine without the car moving off.

All will become second nature after a few days.

andruec

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 936
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: (ex)Jazz Mk3 EX-t
Re: Auto idle stop on CVT, neutral and other issues.
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2018, 06:16:34 PM »
2) As soon as you place the selector into neutral the engine restarts anyway.
Actually, no, it doesn't. It is however fairly pointless because if you then lift your foot off the brake pedal (after presumably applying the handbrake as you would in a manual) the engine will restart. The engine will also restart if you move the gear selector out of neutral even if you have the foot pedal pressed.

In my opinion this is poor design, especially since moving the gear lever out of neutral will restart the engine anyway. Why not allow the engine to remain off as long as the vehicle is in neutral and the handbrake applied? It basically means that the only way to make use of idle stop on the CVT version is to keep your foot on the brake pedal. I used to hate drivers that did that but, sadly, I have now become one of them. I applaud the idea of idle stop and unfortunately I'm prepared to shine my brake lights at the driver behind rather than waste fuel idling. If it's any consolation it appears that hardly anyone else bothers to take their foot off the foot brake anyway these days. If you can't take three red lights shining into your eyes for a minute or two you probably shouldn't be driving  :(

For what it's worth this rather silly situation appears to be common across all manufacturer's automatics that have idle stop. So I can only assume that there is a good reason for it but damned if I can see what that might be.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 06:21:27 PM by andruec »

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9356
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: Died from rust.
Re: Auto idle stop on CVT, neutral and other issues.
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2018, 06:38:26 PM »
If you can't take three red lights shining into your eyes for a minute or two you probably shouldn't be driving
Brake lights never bother me. It is just part of city driving.

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Auto idle stop on CVT, neutral and other issues.
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2018, 07:00:35 PM »
If you can't take three red lights shining into your eyes for a minute or two you probably shouldn't be driving
Brake lights never bother me. It is just part of city driving.

They bother me, mainly because it is just another sign of how little many drivers care about other road users.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

andruec

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 936
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: (ex)Jazz Mk3 EX-t
Re: Auto idle stop on CVT, neutral and other issues.
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2018, 07:16:44 PM »
If you can't take three red lights shining into your eyes for a minute or two you probably shouldn't be driving
Brake lights never bother me. It is just part of city driving.

They bother me, mainly because it is just another sign of how little many drivers care about other road users.
I care about air quality and the scarcity of oil more ;)

Oh and I just hate the idea of wasting energy.

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Auto idle stop on CVT, neutral and other issues.
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2018, 07:28:05 PM »
If you can't take three red lights shining into your eyes for a minute or two you probably shouldn't be driving
Brake lights never bother me. It is just part of city driving.

They bother me, mainly because it is just another sign of how little many drivers care about other road users.
I care about air quality and the scarcity of oil more ;)

Oh and I just hate the idea of wasting energy.

Put your handbrake on then.............
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Kenneve

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 993
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2023 Jazz Advance e-HEV, Red
Re: Auto idle stop on CVT, neutral and other issues.
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2018, 09:04:31 PM »
I would like to bet that it costs more in energy to power the brake lights and the starter motor, than can be saved using stop/start. :(

andruec

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 936
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: (ex)Jazz Mk3 EX-t
Re: Auto idle stop on CVT, neutral and other issues.
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2018, 09:17:48 PM »
I would like to bet that it costs more in energy to power the brake lights and the starter motor, than can be saved using stop/start. :(
You'd probably lose that bet.

Well - I'm not sure about the brake lights but various motoring articles have suggested that the engine only has to be off for three seconds for it to be worthwhile. What a lot of people (like you presumably) who haven't experienced idle stop don't realise is how quickly the engine restarts. Forget what you might be used to with the engine turning over four or five times for a second. With idle stop it fires almost immediately. Mine restarts so quickly that it's already running before I've had time to move my foot from the brake to the accelerator. So it must be using very little power.

But it's not all about fuel savings (which most articles estimate at between 3% and 10%) but also about air quality. An idling car is generating pollution and whilst the restart generates a little burst of pollution it is offset by the amount saved by not running for several seconds.

Not all articles agree but most do. What I can say is that if I'm stationary for longer than idle stop will allow the engine to be off I can see the fuel consumption reported on the dash start to worsen within a few seconds of the engine restarting.

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/the_green_lantern/2008/05/is_an_idle_car_the_devils_workshop.html

"But he's slowly come around to buying it, in large part because of this field experiment by the Florida section of the American Society of Mechanical Engineers. The researchers concluded that restarting a six-cylinder engine—with the air conditioner switched on—uses as much gas as idling the same car for just six seconds."

And that doesn't sound like it was an idle-stop system. Just a normal engine being turned off then turned on (presumably turning over for longer than a proper idle-stop system would).
« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 09:29:14 PM by andruec »

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9356
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: Died from rust.
Re: Auto idle stop on CVT, neutral and other issues.
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2018, 10:35:24 PM »
I switch off my engine if I am going to be stopped at a known "long light", and I am in the belief that I only win if the engine is off for more than six seconds (no idle stop on my old Jazz).

andruec

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 936
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: (ex)Jazz Mk3 EX-t
Re: Auto idle stop on CVT, neutral and other issues.
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2018, 09:25:40 AM »
I switch off my engine if I am going to be stopped at a known "long light", and I am in the belief that I only win if the engine is off for more than six seconds (no idle stop on my old Jazz).
I always try to manage my idle stop to never stop the engine for less than three seconds. Well actually I try (and usually succeed) not to actually stop at all. Good anticipation and traffic awareness means that unless I'm caught in really heavy traffic or at lights I can usually get by with creep.

peteo48

  • Topic Starter
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2689
  • Country: gb
  • I have entered the Jazz Age
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: 2021 Honda Jazz Mk4 1.5 i-MMD EX
Re: Auto idle stop on CVT, neutral and other issues.
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2018, 09:39:38 AM »
Brake lights have never bothered me. They certainly don't "blind" me. I'm with Jocko on this one. I live in an urban environment (1.5 miles from Warrington town centre) and it's just part of urban driving.

Spoke to my brother yesterday who has had autos for years. What did he do at a long stop - eg a level crossing. Answer? There are no level crossings where he lives! He always uses foot on the brake at lights. He never ever uses neutral but, if there was a long stop, he would simply go into Park, handbrake on, engine off and start again.

It's an issue, occasionally, for me because there are more swing bridges than you could shake a stick at in Warrington and when one of those babies swings you are immobile for 10 minutes.

ColinS

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 899
  • Country: england
  • My Honda: 2018 HR-V EX-Navi CVT
Re: Auto idle stop on CVT, neutral and other issues.
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2018, 10:19:32 AM »
I guess we are never going to agree on the use of brake lights but it is not all makes of car that make me lower my sun visor when stopped behind them, some don't seem to be as bright as others.  I have never been "blinded" but it can certainly be uncomfortable.

The real blame, from what I read in these forums, is on Honda who design a car which encourages drivers not to drive to the highway code.

Brake lights are to show the car behind that you are braking http://www.highwaycode.info/rule/114.  If you are concerned that a driver approaching you from behind is not aware that you have stopped, sure keep your foot on the brake pedal, but take it off once they have stopped and use your handbrake.  In extreme circumstances, like when I join the back of a queue on the motorway, I briefly use my hazard warning lights.

Tags:
 

Back to top