Fitting new rear brake calipers with integral handbrake cable bracket

[bill888]

After fitting new front Pagid pads, painted discs, and Bremtech brake calipers just over a year ago, after one of the calipers seized/overheated.
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=12214.15
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=12753.msg93381#msg93381

It was now time to turn my attention to the rear brakes.  The 2007 has less than 20k miles on the clock.  Factory fitted rear pads still had over 4mm and the discs were in good condition (just under 9mm).  I thought I'd get away with just refreshing the brake pads but discovered I can't fully wind back one of the pistons, so I've reinstalled the old pads.

Pagid brake discs and Bremtech rear calipers (Brakes International ebay store) on order.  Brembo (not Pagid) brake pads already bought.  Brembos did not come with any shims so I have to reuse old undamaged factory shims.

I have one question though.  I've studied a couple of YT videos including those posted by gtd65

Some calipers don't include the handbrake L bracket, and so it is necessary to reuse the existing bracket.

The Bremtechs come with a new L bracket, and Haynes/Honda ESM both says to pull a horseshoe clip to allow the handbrake cable to be separated from the L bracket.  See image below.

However, I'm wary there is 14+ years of corrosion and any attempt to remove the clip may result in its disintegration.  I'm not sure how easy it is to find a replacement clip.

Does anyone have any thoughts about removing this clip when they had to change the handbrake cable or calipers?


Update:  I found this 2022 YT video, for 2006 Jazz by 'DIY Khan'
https://youtu.be/iJofZq3-EsU

I'm wondering if these are the same size as brake hose retention horse shoe clips used by Honda.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334188172320

[bill888]

Photos of one of the Bremtech rear calipers purchased as a pair from Brakes International ebay store as a complete set.

They advised if I had ordered individual calipers, they claim they do not include the 'fitting kit' which were already attached to the new calipers.  ie. transfer the ones from your old calipers.

BCA4400, VSBC199L
BCA4401, VSBC199R

I don't know whether there is any real difference in quality between these calipers and less expensive ones sold on eBay and other places like autodoc.

[Ellied02]

I just put new rear discs and pads on my 2005, and to give better access I thought I'd remove the handbrake cable so I removed the clip your are referring to. It came off very easily and is still serviceable. Everything else was rusted to bu****y though!

[WelshBeauty]

I just put new rear discs and pads on my 2005, and to give better access I thought I'd remove the handbrake cable so I removed the clip your are referring to. It came off very easily and is still serviceable. Everything else was rusted to bu****y though!

+1

[fashionphotography]

my 07 1.4 DSI had new rear pads and discs a couple of years back but car had only done less than ten thousand miles since. but ive had the car nearly a year now and well glad to get rid of those damned pagid pads lol.. noisy grinding noises when first setting off and sticking after rain.. anyway local garage fitted some budget ones which are great . no noises sticking and handbreak a lot better..

[bill888]

After receiving the calipers and measuring 18.3mm diameter of the hole in the handbrake L bracket, I immediately ordered a set of 4 Civic brake hose retention clips for 5 quid off ebay.  Your subsequent replies suggest I won't need to replace the original clip.  I will check whether the new clips are the same size.  (Update: they are same size.  Lings Honda lists them at about £2.50 each)

I've observed the surface of Pagid discs turn yellow very easily overnight if there is moisture or rain overnight.  The original Honda discs on rear axle stay bright silver.

Any grinding noises from the brakes when applying the brakes for the first time after it has been raining or damp overnight, don't seem to be any worse than before fitting front Pagid discs and brake pads over a year ago.

The only minor issue I've had with the Pagid pads on front axle, is when I Very slowly take my foot off the brake pedal and allow the CVT car creep forward to 'cautiously' join the narrow lane at end of the driveway, there is some creaking noise for a second.  Sounds like the brakes are juddering?

I've suffered rear brakes sticking in the past.  Following tip from a friend, I don't use the handbrake any more when parked on level ground as it is an automatic car with Park option.

[bill888]

I managed to fit the new rear calipers.  The horseshoe clip did not pose any problems.

Unfortunately, I did hit upon a problem with these new Bremtechs.

When I tried to reinstall the handbrake cable, it wouldn't seat into the L bracket without severely straining the cable.

The metal P clips that hold the handbrake cable under the car due to usual rust on the P clips embedding the clip into the outer protective sheath of the brake cable.  ie. I could not slide the cables back a quarter of an inch.

I compared the Honda and new calipers and realised the L bracket is shorter on the Bremtechs!   See attached photos.

I had to transfer the L bracket from the original Honda calipers to the new Bremtechs to resolve the issue.


Update: Brakes International responded and said no other customer had reported this issue.  They will ask their technical team to contact the manufacturer to enquire about the difference in the length of the L bracket.

[bill888]

The only other issue is with handbrake.

I followed the Hayes/Honda ESM to adjust the handbrake when wheel starts to drag when handbrake is on one click.

However, with handbrake off, I noticed the cable is pulling on the spring loaded caliper lever on the offside rear caliper, so it is not touching the stop pin. A gap of perhaps 1-2mm.  The nearside rear is fine, lever is touching the stop pin.

The offside rear brakes don't seem to be dragging (not getting super hot) after driving a mile or two.

Handbrake can hold the car on 9 clicks on steepest road I could find in our estate  (7 or 8 with original Honda calipers).  Honda ESM quote 6-10 clicks for disc brakes.

Perhaps hill-holding will improve once the pads bed in?


Update April 2023:
Handbrake mechanism in caliper was faulty.  See thread below

https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=15611.0

[bobby boy]

To the best of my knowledge, the handbrake levers should be against the stops when the handbrake is off. You may need to slacken the cable adjusters to achieve this, the footbrake should then be pressed hard a few tlmes to adjust the clearance between pads and discs. The handbrake should then be adjusted, and checked for correct operation. Hope this helps.

[bill888]

I'll try your suggestion tomorrow and report back.

[bobby boy]

Make sure the handbrake cables are not siezed or damaged before connecting to the calipers and adjusting.

[bill888]

I slackened off the adjuster.  Cables were loose at the caliper end.  Pumped the brake pedal several times.  Then adjusted the handbrake.

Seem to be back where I started.  The lever is about 1mm away from the stop pin on OSR.   It is against the stop pin on NSR.

I checked the number of exposed threads before and after adjustment. 16 vs 15 respectively.

With brake pedal depressed and handbrake is fully engaged, 9 clicks,  the caliper lever is around the mid-way position.

I would have thought handbrake doesn't start pushing against the piston as soon as it moves off the stop pin, so perhaps 1mm is not a big deal?   (I wonder how many ppl actually check the lever returns to stop pin after adjusting their handbrake?)

I'll take car out later to bed in the rear pads/discs by gently applying handbrake while driving on a quiet road.  If I can get the handbrake to hold the car on a gradient with 1 or 2 less clicks, I may be able to back off the adjuster a bit?   



Update April 2023:
Handbrake mechanism in caliper was faulty.  See thread below

https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=15611.0

[bobby boy]

Just checked my mk2 jazz and the handbrake was fully engaged on six clicks. As you say, when the pads are bedded in things may sort themselves out. I am not a fan of this type of rear brake setup, much prefer drum brakes on the rear.

[olduser1]

I would drive it a week or so,  then slacken the hbrake adjuster to the point when applied 1 click the rear brake is just moveable by hand. Then  nip up the cable and recheck not binding when hbrake off. It can take couple of adjustments on new pads.