Author Topic: Air conditioning compressor rattling  (Read 3853 times)

Rory

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Air conditioning compressor rattling
« on: August 01, 2018, 09:19:39 PM »
Noticed rattling on our 2009 car which is in the hands of our son-in-law.  I suggested he took it to local place who started up a few years ago when Honda canned a couple of the local dealers.

They diagnosed it, as I'd feared, as needing a new compressor.  What I was gobsmacked by was they said it would cost £1400 and at that they didn't think it worth doing on a 2009 car.

I'd have expected that price from a dealer, but thought a indie place would have a more cost-effective solution.

Anyone had to replace theirs recently, and have an idea?  There's loads on eBay but they may be no better.  Pattern parts seem to be around £300 but I don't know what's good and what's not.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 09:08:07 AM by Rory »

Jocko

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Re: Air conditioning compressor rattling
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2018, 08:43:03 AM »
Perhaps it explains why Honda canned those dealers! It seems to me it is most likely to be the compressor drive clutch as against the compressor itself. Compressors don't normally rattle. A cataclysmic failure normally results in the compressor seizing.

Rory

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Re: Air conditioning compressor rattling
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2018, 10:28:49 AM »
I looked at various YouTube videos last night and there's not much to the clutch however the compressor bearings can apparently rattle.

Knowing son-in-law the a/c probably hasn't worked for months so I'm thinking the condenser might be holed too.  They may have looked at the state of the car (although I'm assured he emptied it out before taking it in) and decided they didn't really want to work on it!  If they'd told them it should be done, he'd have probably agreed.

Doesn't feel like a good idea to just leave it as it may sieze.  Although he'll just shrug and call the AA.




Jocko

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Re: Air conditioning compressor rattling
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2018, 10:45:42 AM »
You could always remove the clutch and do away with the air con. My car doesn't have it and for 90% of the year I don't miss it.

culzean

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Re: Air conditioning compressor rattling
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2018, 10:57:47 AM »
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=10172.msg60300#msg60300

Have a look at above thread. especially page 3 and 4

The clutch failed on my Civic and it rattled whether aircon was switched on or not (it would do because the energising coil in clutch had failed so clutch was never trying to pull in) - you need to check if the clutch is actually getting energised some pictures and advice in linked thread.   I replaced the whole clutch (coil alone was about £30 and complete clutch only £55) Good job I got whole clutch as it comes with pulley, coil and plate and the pulley has new bearing already fitted, and the old plate and pulley face were pretty much FUBAR anyway - it is a PITA of a job - as the clutch is held on with a big circlip buried deep within,  and also pulley is held on with big circlip and to get access you need to get wheel underguarding out of the way and maybe bumper off ( never done one on a Jazz, but had to remove screenwasher reservoir and bumper on Civic) , I replaced serpentine belt at same time (£50 ) even though I didn't need to but it is such a pain to do and I had to release belt to fit new clutch anyway.   There is a set gap between clutch plate and pulley of 0.35mm to (max) 0.65mm and you can get shim kit for about £4 from Cox Honda in Lancaster.

If you want to remove just the clutch plate to stop rattling and not use aircon you will have to leave existing pulley in place (otherwise you need a shorter drive belt) and only need to remove the clutch plate,  which involves just removing the nyloc nut that secures plate onto splined shaft that drives compressor.  You can also stop clutch pulling in by just removing either its fuse or relay in fusebox.

some compressors here  https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/compressor-parts-10454/honda/jazz/jazz-iii-ge/12959-1-4
« Last Edit: August 02, 2018, 05:15:22 PM by culzean »
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Rory

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Re: Air conditioning compressor rattling
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2018, 08:33:02 PM »
Thanks for that - I'd searched but hadn't seen that thread.

Can't really pick up unusual noises from those videos - ours is making an almost ringing rattly noise.  It's like a louder version of the brake acoustic wear indicator noise that we had on the 2014 car.

Thanks also for the link to compressors - I'd found similar and I don't understand why an indie wouldn't have offered a pattern part.   Even if it is just the clutch I'm past doing that sort of thing myself but on other Hondas where the clutch spacing as widened or it's lost its magnetic pull, they haven't been rattling so I think there's more wrong with ours than could be corrected by swapping relays, although I will have a look at that.

culzean

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Re: Air conditioning compressor rattling
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2018, 09:07:48 AM »
Honda use a scroll type compressor with few moving parts (also used in industry for compressing air) and it is normally a very reliable type,  but the downside is that it is a fixed volume per revolution,  so to control the amount of cooling  the clutch has to energise and de-energise regularly to engage and disengage the compressor from the drive belt.  Some other car makers use a swash plate type compressor (also a derivative known as a wobbly-plate type - both have pistons and a rotating plate with a variable angle that can move the pistons more or less of their stroke depending on the angle of plate) this is a variable volume compressor that can be run continuously (meaning the clutch only energised when you switch aircon on and de-energised when you switch it off or stop the engine,  or some types do not need a clutch at all) - the swash plate type has many more moving parts but t can adjust the volume / pressure of gas 'on the fly' .   It is normally the clutch that fails on Honda (which is a relatively cheap part)  and Civic seems more prone to it than Jazz (as I found out recently).

Scroll type compressors are used in industry to compress air and are very reliable and efficient,  the swash plate system is used in industrial hydraulic pumps and hydraulic motors (both of which normally run a slower speeds ).

http://sanden.com/scrollcompressors.html

http://sanden.com/pistoncompressors.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swashplate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scroll_compressor


« Last Edit: August 04, 2018, 09:35:05 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Rory

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Re: Air conditioning compressor rattling
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2018, 12:08:05 PM »
Thanks for the info on a/c systems - I did find that Honda offered 3yrs extra warranty on CRV a/c clutch for a while as the fitted too small a compressor so the clutch duty cycle was too high and it wore the clutches out early.  Bit gobsmacked that Honda apparently regard this a routine thing - it's not something you'd expect to wear out on a car during its normal life.

Spoke to son-in-law last night, the a'c works fine and apparently the garage did try and source a lower cost compressor but couldn't get one same day so offered a Honda one, but also advised that it was OK to live with the noise.  Maybe they were being ironic when they said 'turn the radio up' - I moved his car a while ago and when I turned the ignition on the radio was so loud it scared the life out of me.

I've had some contact with the owner of the place in the past but SIL doesn't appear to have seen him at all - could be he's on holiday I suppose.   Car needs to go back for service and MOT later this month anyway.

In other news the car is "going to have its windscreen looked at" on Monday and he asked me whether the tyres might need replacing "as they've been on for a while".  He terrifies me.



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