Author Topic: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones  (Read 5717 times)

Wilmo

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Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2023, 04:08:59 PM »
And how long before hackers  put out false alarms causing panic  because the government has taken the cheapest bid on programming, security,etc or appointed one of their cronys with no experience  or developers controlled  by a hostile foreign state.
What like Capita who seem to bugger up everything they touch?

embee

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Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2023, 06:28:14 PM »
These comments seem to be missing the point. This is all about emergency alerts that will be used when there's a danger to life. And you want to turn them off?
Not wishing to be contrary, but I genuinely can't think of a realistic UK emergency where such a system would be practically useful.
We don't have tsunamis, nor major earthquakes, nor volcanic eruptions, flash floods are rarely unexpected (there's usually decent weather warning or prolonged rainfall beforehand). It wouldn't be any use with terror attacks like London Bridge or the Manchester Arena, and as for nuclear missile attacks ........ what on earth would anyone do anyway?
Am I missing something?

Jocko

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Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2023, 07:23:59 PM »
Lynmouth Flood of 1952. The North Sea flood of 1953. Boscastle 2004. Whaley Bridge 2019.

embee

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Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2023, 10:49:12 PM »
But that's the thing, tidal events are well predicted (North Sea 1953), weather events are well predicted and forewarned (Lynmouth 1952 - quote - Like so many natural disasters the Lynmouth flood was not caused by a single factor or event.  A wide range of things occurred during the previous two weeks and during the night of August 15th – 16th 1952 which combined to cause the tragedy.)
Boscastle was more or less pre-warned by several hours and back in 2004 there wasn't the social media that there is now.
Whaley Bridge dam was warned about in advance (BBC - The collapse of a dam which almost flooded Whaley Bridge was caused by poor design and a lack of maintenance, an official report has found.
An engineer had inspected Toddbrook Reservoir and warned its owners about problems with the auxiliary spillway just months before it collapsed.
However, the owners, the Canal and River Trust, had not done any repair work by the time of the collapse.)

I'm sure social media will do the job today. I still don't really see what a shotgun style emergency alert will achieve, but hey, it makes it look like someone is doing "something", you know the saying, "something must be done, this is something, therefore it must be done".

Maybe I'm just too cynical in my old age. Bring on the sirens.

ColinB

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Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2023, 07:34:42 AM »
I don’t think it’s helpful to dismiss this on the hubristic basis that it’ll never be useful. It’s an additional communication channel that may be useful in certain circumstances; if you’re right then it’ll never be used, but it’s there if needed.

In the examples you dismiss, emergency personnel had to risk themselves rescuing people and sadly there was loss of life. If the incidents were as well foreshadowed as your hindsight suggests, why did that happen? I suspect there was complacency, an attitude that the authorities were crying wolf. Perhaps an alert system like this that broadcast something like “It’s happening NOW, head for high ground NOW” would have persuaded the naysayers into action.

I don’t buy the social media argument ... that’s voluntary and not everyone will get timely warnings that way. A big advantage of this new system is that it’s localised, which social media isn’t. Anyone in an area affected by an incident might get an alert advising action they should take; anyone just outside that area might get a different message advising not to travel into it.

Mr Onion

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Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2023, 09:04:54 AM »
I'm sure social media will do the job today.

What about those of us who are not on, and who will never be on, social media?

(and yes I realise that the same argument can be used for those not having a smart phone)

It’s an additional communication channel that may be useful in certain circumstances; if you’re right then it’ll never be used, but it’s there if needed.

Exactly. The incident it where it will be most helpful is the one that no once has even considered yet

embee

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Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2023, 10:12:05 AM »
OK, I take the points. I never ever dismiss loss of life nor valiant efforts of emergency service personnel. My thoughts were that such instances as referenced were all predicted at the time, it's not just my hindsight, and today the predictions would be far more accurate.

The facts are that people ignore warnings, both chronic (this situation is likely to get worse and you'd be well advised to take precautionary action) and acute (it's happening now and jump to it!). How often have you witnessed a fire alarm go off and people just look at each other and think "is this really happening or is it just a false alarm, I'll just sit here for a bit longer and see if anyone else does anything."

We see numerous examples time and again of people ignoring specific warnings of approaching forest fires and waiting till the last moment before trying to drive through the flames, California for example. People don't even take any notice of red crosses showing closed lanes on motorways.

I know i'm a congenital skeptic, but I'll make a prediction that if it ever gets used in anger, most people will ignore it anyway. I still can't really think of a national emergency situation in which it would actually achieve anything, when it goes off what exactly are we supposed to do? I hope I'm wrong.

At the very least it can't really make things any worse I suppose, and as you say it might just save one life.

A warning sent to mobile phones when a driver tries to use one might be a good idea.

Best wishes to all  :)
« Last Edit: March 22, 2023, 10:13:42 AM by embee »

richardfrost

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Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2023, 10:58:47 AM »
Here in the Calder Valley we can be subject to vicious, life and property threatening floods, with very little notice. The Boxing Day floods of 2015 arrived over night and caused severe damage to property. Businesses were lost, homes destroyed or damaged forcing the occupants out for up to a year.

Lessons have been learned and flood defences have been improved. Lots of homes and businesses in vulnerable locations have flood barriers that can be put in place. But you need to know when to do that.

It is deemed necessary to have a flood alert system, which uses Air Raid sirens in place from the Cold War. To someone like me who grew up in the 60s and. 70s, the sound of those sirens is chilling to the bone. They are tested regularly but because of the unique geography of our local valley system, they cannot be heard clearly everywhere or indoors.

This system would be ideal for localised warning with the ability to provide specific information. I support this alert technology and welcome the testing scheme.

Lord Voltermore

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Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2023, 11:27:20 AM »
If you see everyone else heading for the hills follow them.  ;D   I have been in a few nuclear bunkers.  If it ever came to that, or living through the after effects I'd rather just accept my fate.   

Those heading for the hills will often be jabbering on their phones..  No one seems able to think for themselves these days . I used to think of there being a village idiot.   Since  social media and smart phones I now realise every village must have  hundreds of them.     
« Last Edit: March 22, 2023, 11:33:25 AM by Lord Voltermore »
  Trust a dog to guard your house  , but not your sandwich

nowster

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Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2023, 11:39:07 AM »
People don't even take any notice of red crosses showing closed lanes on motorways.

Up until the HADECS camera on the gantry flashes them and they get an automatic 6 points and a fine.

Kremmen

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Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2023, 11:45:25 AM »
I know Hadecs3 cameras accurately trap speeders but I wasn't aware they can trap red X infringements.
Let's be careful out there !

Wilmo

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Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2023, 02:05:37 PM »
I think that is part of the upgraded "smart" motorway infrastructure.

Kremmen

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Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2023, 02:12:57 PM »
According to Surrey Police the Hadecs cameras don't trap closed lanes.

However, Hadecs are more finely tuned than older cameras and newer Monitrons and Truvelos.

A friend got fined on the M25 for a true speed of 72mph and when he queried  it they said his speedometer, due to legislation at the time, would have been reading 75 or greater so he had no excuse.
Let's be careful out there !

Wilmo

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« Last Edit: March 22, 2023, 06:05:47 PM by Wilmo »

Jocko

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Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2023, 06:24:16 PM »
It says "Motorway cameras" but doesn't refer to the speed cameras. I know up here we have speed cameras as well as other cameras monitoring traffic flow and lane violations. Plus ANPR cameras.

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