The infamous EGR valve problem

[keitho]

I live in Cyprus and have a 2002 Honda Fit (Jazz) imported from Japan. I bought the car in June 2005.

On three occasions now the car has appeared to misfire at light throttle. On the first two occasions the problem cleared itself after a few weeks. Now the problem has returned and seems to be lasting. A local mechanic linked up the diagnostic computer and nothing was shown to be wrong. I have searched the web and found articles that indicate that a misfiring “feel” could be caused by problems in the transmission. The feel I get at low throttle is a bump, just like a misfire.

The mechanic thinks that it may be dirty fuel but I have refilled the car several times at different stations.

Any clues anyone?

Thank you.

[RichardA]

Hello Keitho and welcome to the site.

I’m not too clued up this sort of thing, but I did have a Hyundai once that used to misfire occasionally. It turned it to be a split plug lead - a coil of leads that go from the distributor to the spark plugs, usually one lead per plug - basically some wires wrapped enclosed in a ’skin’ for protection. If the skin of one of the hoses is split it may mean the wiring encased in the rubber could also be damaged and this would cause an intermittent drop in the electrical feed to the spark plugs (and therefore the cylinders, causing the misfire). It's like those headphones you get with iPods and Walkmans; I used to find the supplied headphones would after a while loose sound in one ear intermittently because the wire in the headphone would get damaged if you wrapped the lead around the iPod/Walkman too tightly.

I suggest you check the plug leads in your Jazz and look at the skin for any visible signs of damage. I’m not saying this is the source of the problem, but it's worth a check.

I will warn you though, I suspect new plug leads *maybe* quite expensive if you have the 1.2 or 1.3/1.4 engine in your Jazz, as these engines (known as i-DSi) have as two spark plugs for each of the four cylinders (like a Alfa Twin Spark engine, but works a bit differently) so in theory that could be eight leads in total on the coil.

P.S. Plug leads are the sometimes known as ignition coils.

[keitho]

Thank you RichardA. Things have moved on a bit. Yesterday the car had a 60,000 (kilometre) service. The mechanic changed all plugs and checked the leads/coils - all OK. I have the 1.4 engine, yes, with 8 plugs. The Honda Fit/Jazz is very popular here in Cyprus, most (all?) are imported from Japan. If the grade of fuel was the cause of the problem I would imagine it would be well-known. I bought the car from a respected dealer and it ran faultlessly for several months.

I also found some info on the internet that led me to believe that the problem could be the EGR valve (Exhaust Gas Recycling). I called Honda UK and they gave me the name of their Flagship dealer (Honda Chiswick). I spoke with a mechanic there and described the problem. He immediately said “EGR valve”. He said you could try cleaning it but a replacement is the best thing. I told my mechanic this and during the service he cleaned the valve, but we haven’t really noticed any change.

My next step is to get a new EGR valve. I’ll keep this post updated with any result.

UPDATE 26th JULY: I had a new EGR valve fitted 10 days ago and the problem has not returned so it looks as if that was the problem. The problem was intermittent. The day before I took the car to the local Honda dealer it was very bad and then on the day it was OK. The dealer called me to say that the computer showed no problem and he’d taken it for a drive and felt nothing abnormal. It was a pity he didn’t test-drive it the day before! Anyway he asked if I wanted to have a new valve fitted anyway and I said yes. The cost in Cyprus was £C174 (about £200 sterling). Hopefully end of story.

[haroldT]

We had exactly the same problem with our 2003 Jazz - to me it needed tuning !
Had the car analised by two different whizz kids and no fault was shown. On a hunch did a Google search and found this site …. describing the condition perfectly.

We visited our local Honda dealer, described our fault, instant diagnosis ‘replace EGR valve’ which we had done.

Our Honda now seems better than new. Thanks to those who reported this.

[Nicolas]

Hi, I have have just had the same issue identified at my dealer on my 03 Jazz after months of thinking it was dodgy fuel.

I was so shocked at the price that the dealer asked Honda UK if they would pay towards the repair. I told them that the Jazz had such a good reliabilty record that this was a shock.

They came good and have offered to pay for half the cost, it is obviously a recurring problem on the Jazz that is only coming to light now after a few years use. I do live in London which does accelerate teh issue.

[Bob.R]

We have an 02 Jazz which had the EGR valve replaced at under 20,000 miles to solve this problem. I am ‘in the trade’ and we get a couple of EGR faults every week across the whole range of makes. It always seems worse on vehicles which are used on short runs, or light throttle.
They can often be cured by giving them a good blast on the motorway with the engine hot, not of course exceeding the speed limit, but by holding a lower gear and accelerating/decelerating briskly for a couple of miles.
It is a fairly easy job to remove the valve and clean with carb cleaner, but in extreme cases the only solution is to change the valve.

[jazzer]

when u say misfiring, im guessing its like a jurky feeling under light acceleration? if it is, i get that with my jazz sport, only had it a yr and 13k miles.. should honda replace this under the warranty without any costs?

[WillyCrank]

I have the Fit/Sport American import model and currently have had 62,000 trouble free miles; until. I fueled as usual and my commute is 140 miles per day. I was 50 miles into the first leg when my “check engine” icon illuminated.
At the time I thought OK; then as I accelerated down the ramp to hwy speed when the Tach reach 4,000 rpm the rev limiter kicked in and the car of course nosed over. I realized that it would run under that rpm and limped up to 70mph as I usually do I tried to set the cruise control it illuminated as being on but would not set to any speed. Then a few days later it went back to normal; no light no rev limiter issues I thought OK it resolved itself as with possibly a fuel problem. Then after 1 day of joy it’s back.

Has anyone out there seen this obvious ECM issue?

[jazz club - nice]

I have the Fit/Sport American import model and currently have had 62,000 trouble free miles; until. I fueled as usual and my commute is 140 miles per day. I was 50 miles into the first leg when my “check engine” icon illuminated.
At the time I thought OK; then as I accelerated down the ramp to hwy speed when the Tach reach 4,000 rpm the rev limiter kicked in and the car of course nosed over. I realized that it would run under that rpm and limped up to 70mph as I usually do I tried to set the cruise control it illuminated as being on but would not set to any speed. Then a few days later it went back to normal; no light no rev limiter issues I thought OK it resolved itself as with possibly a fuel problem. Then after 1 day of joy it’s back.

Has anyone out there seen this obvious ECM issue?

62,000 miles??

That's some fair amount of driving. Good job your gas is so cheap.

Do you get super unleaded in the 'states? In England, we have 95 RON (regular unleaded) and 98 RON (super unleaded). BP and Shell do a version of super unleaded (still 98 RON) but with 'additives' to increase performance and reduce fuel consumption* Could try these?

*My brother say's his Scooby runs better on Shell V-Power or BP Ultimate, although I myself have never seen any benifits.

[TouranMan]

Has anyone successfully cleaned an EGR valve to cure the well known problem?

I've been asked by my parents to look at theirs and a friend of a friend mechanic has suggested leaving it soaking it petrol overnight to free it off.  I removed it last weekend to take a look at it and was able to move the 'plunger' to open the valve quite freely against the spring pressure so I don't think it's going to fix the problem but they want me to try it anyway!

Just wondered if anyone has had any success in cleaning it?

Thanks

[TouranMan]

Never mind, did it last night.

[ivorbeck]

Any chance you can inform how you fixed the EGR valve? It would be useful for future reference.

[wetclio]

anyone know where it is??

[JazzyB]

hi its located on top of engine on the left hand side in front of the oil filler cap as your facing the engine with the bonnet up

It has an electrical connection on top and the egr valve itself is held down with two bolts

i cant seem to post a pic in this reply

hope that helps

[RichardA]

This is the location of the EGR valve:



The EGR valve itself: