Author Topic: Re: Split topics from New Jazz Si Launched  (Read 8075 times)

guest1513

  • Guest
Re: Split topics from New Jazz Si Launched
« on: July 09, 2012, 09:50:01 PM »
+1 But I fear Honda UK have presbycusis. :(

chrisc

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 839
  • Country: za
  • My Honda: 2012 1.4 manual
Re: Re: New Jazz Si Launched
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2012, 03:20:02 PM »
+1 But I fear Honda UK have presbycusis. :(

Why, what have they missed?  I thought it was only older people who suffered from this.

That moulding on the bonnet looks a bit odd in the photo
If music be the food of love, play on

guest1513

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
Re: Re: New Jazz Si Launched
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2012, 08:13:39 PM »
+1 But I fear Honda UK have presbycusis. :(

Why, what have they missed?  I thought it was only older people who suffered from this.
;D

1. They don't seem to listen. 2. An explanation might be, they are getting as deaf as their Jazz client base. 3. In case you think this is wantonly unkind to OAPs, I am afflicted in years also.  ;)



chrisc

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 839
  • Country: za
  • My Honda: 2012 1.4 manual
Re: Re: New Jazz Si Launched
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2012, 12:06:19 PM »
Why should Honda listen to old farts like us?  They know better.  Japanese engineers have very definite presumptions about who makes decisions in what they feel to be important matters.

I have only worked at Canon in Japan, translating Japanese user-manuals into English and German, but was told never to suggest changes to their products, since their R&D dept would "lose face" if a suggestion came from someone outside and, heaven forbid, it turned out to be a good one.

The very first manual I translated into English was some Canon 35mm camera with a bayonet lens which you could change.  The manual came to 11 pages. I was sat down with these little Japanese guys and told that I was making their product look simple.  The manual must be complicated, they said, or customers might feel that have purchased an inferior product.  That was their thinking and it was not my job to argue.  So I re-did the manual and got it up to 32 pages, with lots of diagrams, referring from one  page to the other, and they were quite happy.  They had Japanese at the plant quite capable of speaking English, but wanted someone who had done English at university and who spoke English as a first language.  Hitherto their English manuals had strange sentences in it, much like Chinese stuff is today.

So my motto at Canon became, "If its not complicated, its no good".  This applies to nearly all Japanese produced equipment.  This is their way of thinking that the customer will feel he is getting a good product which has had lots of R&D.  I must say that when Japanese engineers design something, they research it thoroughly and when it is released, it works.  No come-backs for dodgy design or flaws.

Edit:   Just looked up my job sheet back in 1968:   が困難に見えるように
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 12:12:13 PM by Chrisc »
If music be the food of love, play on

guest1513

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
Re: Re: New Jazz Si Launched
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2012, 03:43:19 PM »
Interesting insight into Japanese viewpoint, Chrisc!  Avoiding loss of face very important.
I wonder though whether Honda UK is headed up by Japanese execs? As far as Honda UK are concerned it's a lost market opportunity for what would be a very good product - maybe they'll have to have a personnel switch before they can get more dynamic?  They seem to recognise that they are losing ground: http://tinyurl.com/dybljez "In 2011, the Japanese marque suffered a 20% year-on-year drop in UK new car sales, according to the SMMT, with market share falling to 2.6%, placing it behind Nissan, Toyota, Hyundai and Kia. Although this was partly caused by a gap between model launches, as well as the aforementioned supply issues, Moll admits it is a priority to double annual new vehicle sales to 100,000 and climb back up to eighth in the list of the UK's biggest-selling marques."  Digital extraction required. One target might be the age bias to the older segment. Not a good image really, and a diminishing market:)

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Re: New Jazz Si Launched
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2012, 06:07:45 PM »
One target might be the age bias to the older segment. Not a good image really, and a diminishing market:)

The actual percentage of older people in the UK is increasing year on year - maybe aiming your products at older people is a good strategy.  Youngsters also seem keener to buy older cars and pimp them up rather than buying new, except young women - who seem to exclusively buy BMW Mini models.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest1513

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
Re: Re: New Jazz Si Launched
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2012, 08:38:53 PM »
One target might be the age bias to the older segment. Not a good image really, and a diminishing market:)

The actual percentage of older people in the UK is increasing year on year - maybe aiming your products at older people is a good strategy.  Youngsters also seem keener to buy older cars and pimp them up rather than buying new, except young women - who seem to exclusively buy BMW Mini models.

Except that the  older buyers tend to be around for a shorter whlle due to the inevitable march of time. A younger profile would give a more durable buyer base:)   

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Re: New Jazz Si Launched
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2012, 09:25:18 PM »
That's not the way it works,   people are continuously getting older and moving from the young to older age group - and when they get to a certain age they want different things from a car (like reliability and carrying capacity, low mpg etc.) they realise that Honda is the car for them - your customer base isn't dying, it's continually being replenished by people who are getting older and wiser - one day the light bulb goes on in their head and they visit their local Honda dealer.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest1513

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
Re: Re: New Jazz Si Launched
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2012, 12:06:34 AM »
Only in this market is Honda associated with an older age profile.  That excludes many more in the younger age bracket.   Therefore the decline in sales in the UK. 

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Re: New Jazz Si Launched
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2012, 09:39:19 AM »
http://www.cnbc.com/id/47200894/Honda_Sees_Bumper_Year_as_It_Leaves_Disasters_Behind

It could be UK's silly attitude to cars,  where people will pay high prices for cars like Mini and Fiat 500, which are basically 2 seaters (back seats are so cramped as to be unusable) and various well styled but badly engineered offerings from French makers - because they are seen as 'cool' ,  fashionable or chic.

Honda worldwide continues to romp ahead,  because other countries seem to have a more healthy attitude and can separate  engineering excellence and longevity  (boooooring !!) from styling (exciting in the short term, but if you keep the car more than 3 years watch out for important parts dropping off).

UK (and Europe) is only a small part of Honda sales,  but if we don't watch out this important part of our manufacturing base may look elsewhere (where people will buy their cars) to set up its new car manufacturing.

Maybe Honda need a very small car to compete with Toyota Aygo or Smart ForTwo to fill a gap in their line up, and maybe the 1.5 VTEC engine in a Jazz Si would help - but it may also be be the cause of younger buyers killing themselves (and others) en-mass.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

chrisc

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 839
  • Country: za
  • My Honda: 2012 1.4 manual
Re: Re: New Jazz Si Launched
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2012, 11:14:18 AM »
The western way to get sales is to advertise a lot, promote the product, even if it means citing dubious advantages (see Chrysler and many banks, who claim all sorts of benefits without telling you the conditions)

The Japanese way (at least in Japan) is to show how superior your product is compared with a competitors and how you will gain prestige from using that company's products, because people will realise that you must be a clever guy, having chosen that product over another.  Also, Japanese cars can only be used for 2 years, then you must buy another.  Hence the huge export of used Japanese cars.  Honda have consistently been at the top of the used car value stakes since the 1970s when they were better known for producing excellent motor-bikes.

In Japan, the price of a Honda is 2.5 times that of a comparable Toyota or Mazda, whereas in SA, it is only 1.4 times (comparing a Toyota Yaris with a Jazz).  Japanese consumers are definitely not short of money and perceive they are getting a better quality product when they buy a Honda
If music be the food of love, play on

guest1513

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
Re: Re: New Jazz Si Launched
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2012, 04:04:14 PM »
http://www.cnbc.com/id/47200894/Honda_Sees_Bumper_Year_as_It_Leaves_Disasters_Behind

It could be UK's silly attitude to cars,  where people will pay high prices for cars like Mini and Fiat 500, which are basically 2 seaters (back seats are so cramped as to be unusable) and various well styled but badly engineered offerings from French makers - because they are seen as 'cool' ,  fashionable or chic.

Can't argue wth that!  Spot on Culzean.

RichardA

  • Administrator
  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3046
  • Country: gb
    • https://clubjazz.org
  • My Honda: 2007 1.4 i-DSi Sport manual
Re: Re: Split topics from New Jazz Si Launched
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2012, 08:21:27 PM »
Why should Honda listen to old farts like us?  They know better.  Japanese engineers have very definite presumptions about who makes decisions in what they feel to be important matters.

I have only worked at Canon in Japan, translating Japanese user-manuals into English and German, but was told never to suggest changes to their products, since their R&D dept would "lose face" if a suggestion came from someone outside and, heaven forbid, it turned out to be a good one.

The very first manual I translated into English was some Canon 35mm camera with a bayonet lens which you could change.  The manual came to 11 pages. I was sat down with these little Japanese guys and told that I was making their product look simple.  The manual must be complicated, they said, or customers might feel that have purchased an inferior product.  That was their thinking and it was not my job to argue.  So I re-did the manual and got it up to 32 pages, with lots of diagrams, referring from one  page to the other, and they were quite happy.  They had Japanese at the plant quite capable of speaking English, but wanted someone who had done English at university and who spoke English as a first language.  Hitherto their English manuals had strange sentences in it, much like Chinese stuff is today.

So my motto at Canon became, "If its not complicated, its no good".  This applies to nearly all Japanese produced equipment.  This is their way of thinking that the customer will feel he is getting a good product which has had lots of R&D.  I must say that when Japanese engineers design something, they research it thoroughly and when it is released, it works.  No come-backs for dodgy design or flaws.

Edit:   Just looked up my job sheet back in 1968:   が困難に見えるように

Very interesting and a complete contrast with the way Apple do things. Their products are very simple.

John Ratsey

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2671
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2022 HR-V Elegance
Re: Re: New Jazz Si Launched
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2012, 02:17:59 PM »
Maybe Honda need a very small car to compete with Toyota Aygo or Smart ForTwo to fill a gap in their line up, and maybe the 1.5 VTEC engine in a Jazz Si would help - but it may also be be the cause of younger buyers killing themselves (and others) en-mass.

In India the smaller-than-Jazz model is called the Honda Brio: http://www.hondacarindia.com/HondaBrio/specifications.html . They could do a lot worse than shipping them into Europe.

And, the other way that Honda can appeal to more of the younger UK generation is to introduce the 1.5 litre Jazz. It exists in other markets.

John
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

Tags:
 

Back to top