Author Topic: Idle stop, on or off?  (Read 3245 times)

Jocko

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Re: Idle stop, on or off?
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2017, 04:19:26 PM »
I drive a diesel van, so have to be very careful when filling that up. After 50 years of buying petrol I wonder how long it will be before I make the mistake!

andruec

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Re: Idle stop, on or off?
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2017, 07:28:18 PM »
Idle stop might improve fuel consumption (slightly). It might reduce pavement level pollution (slightly).

But what it does not do (or only very rarely) is interfere with my use of the vehicle. Therefore I allow it to do its thing. If other drivers are struggling to live with it I can only suggest that they learn how to operate their vehicle properly. My engine is always on and ready to go when I need it. It may or may not be running when I don't need it but I don't care either way about that.

Perhaps if those that don't like it can explain what the problem is the rest of us can tell them what they are doing wrong.

ColinB

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Re: Idle stop, on or off?
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2017, 10:01:16 AM »
I have been turning my idle stop off for a couple of weeks,....This makes normal driving with short stops far more pleasant ...
... these systems detract from driving comfort and pleasure ...
... I have been passenger in stop-start cars and I reckon I would be switching it off as well if I was driving.
I don't understand these comments. Could you guys explain why it is somehow "unpleasant" ? The guy in the video talks about it being harsh on restart (in some cars), but mine operates seamlessly without any fuss and is barely noticeable. Certainly it's not annoying enough to make me want to remember to turn the system off every time I start the car. Does yours do something intrusive or uncomfortable ? Although if you have CVTs then I'd encourage you to turn it off so you don't dazzle the driver behind with your brake lights, that's definitely more annoying than whether it may or may not save a minuscule amount of fuel & emissions.

richardfrost

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Re: Idle stop, on or off?
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2017, 10:18:11 AM »
Although if you have CVTs then I'd encourage you to turn it off so you don't dazzle the driver behind with your brake lights

That is nothing to do with Stop/Start and everything to do with Brake Hold. Just pull up the Handbrake button and the brake lights will go off. Brake Hold is like keeping your foot on the foot brake. It is not the Hand Brake. Or is that different on a CVT?

ColinB

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Re: Idle stop, on or off?
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2017, 03:04:48 PM »
Although if you have CVTs then I'd encourage you to turn it off so you don't dazzle the driver behind with your brake lights

That is nothing to do with Stop/Start and everything to do with Brake Hold. Just pull up the Handbrake button and the brake lights will go off. Brake Hold is like keeping your foot on the foot brake. It is not the Hand Brake. Or is that different on a CVT?
I'm not a CVT driver, but my understanding (from comments in other threads on this forum) is that Start-Stop on a CVT (and indeed autos from other manufacturers) is governed by the foot brake. The engine only remains stopped if the driver has his foot on the brake irrespective of whether the handbrake is on or off. Lift off the brake pedal and the engine restarts. So the brake lights stay on if the driver wants the engine to stay stopped, and hence my comment that I'd be happy for CVT drivers to switch the system off. No, I don't understand why it's designed that way either. Happy to be corrected by any CVT driver out there.
PS I don't think the Jazz has "brake hold".

Downsizer

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Re: Idle stop, on or off?
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2017, 04:30:53 PM »
Colin B is correct about CVT.  As soon as you take your foot off the brake, the engine restarts, regardless of the handbrake.  If it wasn't so, there would be no signal to restart I suppose.

richardfrost

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Re: Idle stop, on or off?
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2017, 08:36:05 AM »
Interesting. I drive a manual H-RV and I guess I assumed it was based on the Jazz.

Deeps

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Re: Idle stop, on or off?
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2017, 09:01:39 AM »
Interesting. I drive a manual H-RV and I guess I assumed it was based on the Jazz.

It is, (a Jazz on stilts  :D ) but as yours is a diesel it will have a totally different engine management system.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 09:05:30 AM by Deeps »

andruec

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Re: Idle stop, on or off?
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2017, 03:09:03 PM »
Happy to be corrected by any CVT driver out there.
PS I don't think the Jazz has "brake hold".
You're correct about the CVT and Idle Stop issue. It annoyed me at first but so many people do keep the foot brake pressed when stationary (regardless of transmission) these days that I've learnt to accept it. It never really dazzled me so I'm happy to take the view that if you really are being dazzled you should go to an optician :)

What irritates me most about the CVT I/S implementation is that the engine restarts even if you've selected neutral before releasing the brake pedal. The silly thing is that it will restart if you move the selector out of N so in that case there is a perfectly good indication that you want to move.

As for how much fuel it saves the last time I looked on the web most technical sites were saying that as long as the engine is off for at least two seconds it will save something. Estimates vary but in several 'real world' tests I found it seemed to about five to ten percent for urban driving. That equates to reducing the price of a litre of petrol by 5p or more and I bet most of us would consider that worthwhile :)

However you're wrong about 'brake hold'. My EX has it.

Edit: Re, idle fuel consumption https://energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-861-february-23-2015-idle-fuel-consumption-selected-gasoline-and-diesel-vehicles

For a 2 litre petrol engine it's claiming .16 gallons an hour or .6 litres an hour. So that's just over 1p a minute. So very approximately I/S could be saving me 2 a year. Hardly worth worrying about. But if we multiply that by the couple of hundred thousand vehicles on the road that have this feature (assuming most leave it on) and the fuel savings become more significant.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 03:15:15 PM by andruec »

peteo48

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Re: Idle stop, on or off?
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2017, 04:31:49 PM »
I have been turning my idle stop off for a couple of weeks,....This makes normal driving with short stops far more pleasant ...
... these systems detract from driving comfort and pleasure ...
... I have been passenger in stop-start cars and I reckon I would be switching it off as well if I was driving.
I don't understand these comments. Could you guys explain why it is somehow "unpleasant" ? The guy in the video talks about it being harsh on restart (in some cars), but mine operates seamlessly without any fuss and is barely noticeable. Certainly it's not annoying enough to make me want to remember to turn the system off every time I start the car. Does yours do something intrusive or uncomfortable ? Although if you have CVTs then I'd encourage you to turn it off so you don't dazzle the driver behind with your brake lights, that's definitely more annoying than whether it may or may not save a minuscule amount of fuel & emissions.

I'll come clean here. I have no experience of the Honda Stop Start but my daughter's Qashqai has it and it seems a bit clunky. It's on a manual though.

andruec

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Re: Idle stop, on or off?
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2017, 04:58:21 PM »
The Jazz (at least mine) there is just a slight tremble when it starts back up.

The only real issue I have - and I blame myself - is if I misjudge the traffic at a roundabout and come to a halt unnecessarily. If I realise my mistake I might end up pressing the accelerator at the same time as the engine is shutting off. Obviously there's an annoying delay in that situation. It doesn't happen very often though and I blame myself for misjudging the traffic flow.

But in normal use the engine restarts about as fast as I can move my foot from brake to accelerator so it doesn't cause a problem.

Deeps

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Re: Idle stop, on or off?
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2017, 09:11:14 PM »
You don't realise how intrusive the engine restart is until you turn off the idle stop system. Unless you have no mechanical sympathy and are totally insensitive.  :-)

ColinB

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Re: Idle stop, on or off?
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2017, 11:54:28 PM »
However you're wrong about 'brake hold'. My EX has it.

Really ? Could you describe how you use it please ? Are you perhaps confusing Brake Hold (as described here http://www.jthughes.co.uk/How-To/View/Honda/HR-V/How-to-use-the-Honda-HR-V-brake-hold-option/02279019-149f-47ba-b05b-e589bb30b9ee) with Hill Start Assist ? I don't see BH listed as a feature on any Jazz spec, but HSA is.

Kenneve

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Re: Idle stop, on or off?
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2017, 10:27:16 AM »
My stop/start system is always On, but rarely operates because in normal stops, the brake pedal is not pressed hard enough to trigger the function. On the odd occasion when it does trigger, it restarts the instant I take my foot off the brake, as I would expect.

andruec

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Re: Idle stop, on or off?
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2017, 01:39:04 PM »
However you're wrong about 'brake hold'. My EX has it.

Really ? Could you describe how you use it please ? Are you perhaps confusing Brake Hold (as described here http://www.jthughes.co.uk/How-To/View/Honda/HR-V/How-to-use-the-Honda-HR-V-brake-hold-option/02279019-149f-47ba-b05b-e589bb30b9ee) with Hill Start Assist ? I don't see BH listed as a feature on any Jazz spec, but HSA is.
Ah, yes. Sorry.

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