Smart Meters

[Pine]

If I get a Smart Meter installed by British Gas and sometime in the future move to another energy supplier can my new supplier use the meter installed by British Gas?

I ask because I am considering getting a smart meter but every 12 months I review energy prices and often change supplier.

[VicW]

There is a Smart Meter website that may answer the question but from what I have read smart meters are not compatible with every supplier at the moment.
Smart meters are not compulsory, they are optional although the way suppliers and the government behave you could be excused for thinking otherwise.
My question about smart meters is regarding the security of your personal information. The contact between your meters and your supplier is via mobile phone lines. Hackers are very clever and getting better at what they do. If you ask the question about security you don't get a straight answer.

Vic.

[culzean]

https://www.ovoenergy.com/ovo-answers/topics/smart-technology/smart-meters/can-i-switch-energy-suppliers-with-smart-meter.html

I heard a good discussion on the radio last year about these, one expert said there is no reason to introduce smart meters unless suppliers are going to go for variable tariffs (like the old economy 7 with its separate meter) and suppliers did not seem to want to do that,  that also said UK had chosen the short range radio version (they communicate with a radio system installed by OVO energy the range of which is affected by weather, they do not use mobile phone masts)  instead of the more usable system that uses the electrical supply cables to carry the signal.  We have been arf-arzed again same as we were with DAB radio etc.

They had a good system when we lived in Australia,  because they wanted to reduce the peak demand on their electrical supply system they had domestic immersion heaters running through special relay,  this relay could be turned off and on by a signal down the supply cables to shed load from the system for short periods of high demand from other devices (industry etc.)  This kept prices down because they did not have to build expensive extra capacity just to deal with peaks in the system.

I already have a good device that tracks my usage etc.  My brother rang me up last year and asked if smart meters were compulsory as his supplier had come on very strong, I told him to tell them to get lost as it is purely a consumer choice.  My supplier sends me an email when they want  readings and I send one back with 24 hrs,  good enough for me.

[guest1372]

You might as well have one fitted.

I have the BG smart meter in one house (elec + gas), a Calor lpg tank remote reader in another, and I've never even seen my meter in London as they all probably live together in a secure area.

Didn't cost me anything, doesn't require me to do anything, and the display provided a modicum of interest for about a week although it is reassuring to see the current tariff/rates are the ones we expect.  The likelihood is that BG meters will be the dominant metering style as they comply with UK Smart Metering Equipment Technical Specifications (SMETS), if you switch to Npower next year then it's up to them to read the meter.  If their system is incompatible for some reason you can always submit readings or have it read, or they will come round and change it at no cost.

Ours uses two radio transmissions, the primary link to the head-end uses mobile phone data networks, data to the in-home display uses a variant of Zigbee (IEEE 802.15.4 based) running in ISM band.  Your data such as MPN, reading, time, sequence & security token are encoded into a packet and sent periodically.

If you are happy to do online banking or purchase from websites then you should have no worries sending usage data. 
If Russian hackers can figure out that I used 4.5kW of electricity I don't mind.
If BG suddenly think I've used 4500kW of electricity then it will be out of character, so they will ask the meter for another reading.

If you look online you'll see some disappointment that the in-home metering data is closed and not available to home automation systems, plus quite a lot of fun from the tin foil hat brigade.
--
TG

[culzean]

You might as well have one fitted.

Didn't cost me anything,

Guess what, you will definitely pay through your bill (and unfortunately so will I who does not want one, you can get energy readout / usage tracking devices from pound shop these days, I have an owl one that cost £20 and the batteries have lasted 18 months so far and still going) - energy suppliers are not going to take a hit of £350 per customer lying down,  NPower put smart meters at the top of their list for their hike in energy bills just announced. Apparently energy companies are not allowed to charge consumers directly for the cost of the meter so will get money back through 'other avenues' like increasing everyones energy costs (whether you have a meter or not) and selling energy use data to third parties (data is the new oil,  its worth a lot of money).  These useless meters are a legacy of an EU  directive - well good riddance to them.

I have a feeling it wont be long before thieves hack into smart meters to check when people are at home,  and no I am not one of the 'tinfoil hat' brigade but anything with a radio signal is easy to hack, wired systems are harder (that is why we continued to use our undersea cable network in both world wars, it was totally secure,  we wrecked the smaller German network at beginning of WW1 by dredging their cables up and stuffed them good and proper).

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/595477/Smart-meter-sign-up-good-idea-energy-water-bills

[John Ratsey]

I heard a good discussion on the radio last year about these, one expert said there is no reason to introduce smart meters unless suppliers are going to go for variable tariffs (like the old economy 7 with its separate meter) and suppliers did not seem to want to do that,  that also said UK had chosen the short range radio version (they communicate with a radio system installed by OVO energy the range of which is affected by weather, they do not use mobile phone masts)  instead of the more usable system that uses the electrical supply cables to carry the signal.  We have been arf-arzed again same as we were with DAB radio etc.

I have an Ovo smart meter and it uses the mobile phone network. I asked the guy who installed it which network and he said that the SIM card would automatically use whichever network has the best signal and, if that network goes down, would automatically switch to the next best signal. The SIM card is in the electricity meter which also broadcasts to the readout in the house (so maybe people could read that but I don't think it would be of much use to them as the energy consumption is very predictable). There is also a short range radio link from the gas meter to the electricity meter.

One advantage is no need for regular meter readings but someone comes once a year to do a manual check. Another advantage is showing how sensitive the gas bill is to the outside temperature. However, while all the suppliers were intended to use the same system from the start, this hasn't happened so there are potential compatibility issues if switching suppliers.

[TonyS]

Good programme last thursday evening on ITV Tonight at 19:30 all about smart meters which is still available on catch up.
Ultimately the consumer pays for the smart meter installations and the energy supply companies save money by needing less meter readers which I'm sure they will pass on the savings to the consumers which is about as likely as pigs becoming airborne!

[madasafish]

Our prior energy company installed a smart meter in 2016 for electricity. Our new supplier EON cannot use it.

My experience is they are a complete waste of money. What is wrong with monthly/weekly/daily readings?

[culzean]

As usual UK chose worst option for communications, most of Europe uses PLC (power line communication) using cables that are already there and are immune to weather and it does not matter whether your area has a mobile signal or not it still operates. This is just a larger version of the home plugs you can use to distribute internet around your home, we have used them since they first appeared,  fast,  trouble free and secure.

[VicW]

When smart meters are compatible with any energy supplier then I might consider having them fitted.
At the moment OVO email me every month requesting meter readings but I can see there may come a time when it would be convenient if I or my wife didn't have to open the garage door to get the readings.

Vic.

[culzean]

There is a golden opportunity with smart meters to have cheaper off-peak electrical tariff, but from what I have read and heard it is not on the agenda - wonder why energy companies did not want to do it ha ha.   If there had been a suggestion for raising tariff from base for peak times they would knock you over in the rush to implement it.

[VicW]

Here is an interesting article from the Saturday Telegraph reference smart metering.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/bills-and-utilities/gas-electric/paying-11bn-smart-meters-wont-stop-plague-billing-errors/

Vic.

[VicW]

There is a golden opportunity with smart meters to have cheaper off-peak electrical tariff, but from what I have read and heard it is not on the agenda

We have been on Economy 7 for many years where you seven hours of off peak electricity roughly between midnight and 8am. It used to be said that you only need to have a freezer to make Economy 7 worth having. All our washing is done at night and our hot water is heated up.

Vic.

[Jazzdriver]

When we all,have smart meters electricity companies will start to charge more if you use electricity at peak time.  If you boil a kettle at breakfast time you will pay top price for the privilege.

[culzean]

When we all,have smart meters electricity companies will start to charge more if you use electricity at peak time.  If you boil a kettle at breakfast time you will pay top price for the privilege.

I was kind of hoping that they would have lower pricing for overnight electricity (like economy 7) but due to increasing reliance on solar (definitely does not work at night,  works better in summer when you need the power least though DOHHHH) and wind (wind normally drops at night) I think it is a faint hope and I suspect you are correct that they will begin charging more at peak times when we plug in our new low wattage 'Eco' EU toasters that take 10 minutes to make toast and our 1200watt 'EU' kettles that take all day to boil.   The reason NPower put prices up (and so will the rest) is to cover the £11BN (yes that is correct ) cost of rolling out smart meters because they are not allowed to charge customers directly for fitting them.  I will not be getting a smart meter and when my bill goes up I will be writing to my MP and supplier to ask why I am paying the cost of  smart meters but do not have them on my house.