Seconhand cars, warranties and preparation for sale.

[guest5079]

There was much discussion over my post re warranties and as to whether or not I was pushing my luck.
Well, being as I am getting on a bit and not as supple as I used to be, I have checked out the Honda 1.4i VTEC 2010 EX I shift bit by bit.
When I bought the vehicle from a main Honda dealer in the West Country, I paid what I thought was a fair price and what they promised was certainly an attraction. The business of the brakes did cause some discussion BUT I should be interested in the following:
The car was bought around the 20th October 2014 with about 39600 on the clock.  It was four years old on the 27/10/14.
Yesterday, was the turn of the air and cabin filters. On our old Rover V6, these filters had long service intervals BUT I used to renew them much more frequently, not being very expensive, I say this as it gives me an idea of how dirty these filters get. The Honda has four service stamps in the book and I do appreciate that the owner can tell a garage to only do certain things. The service book states at 24 mths or 25000 miles /48 mths or 50000 miles whichever comes first ,the air and cabin filters are to be changed.  Both filters were black, suggesting ( looking at the make etc) they were the original factory fitted. NOW, I have ordered some OM filters to replace the dirty ones.  Would one not have thought that given the age and mileage that these filters would have been checked and changed prior to sale, given this is a Honda main dealer selling a late model car? When the new filters are fitted, the old ones will be photographed and returned to the dealer for their comments. Not for recompense but for their observations. After all if the previous owner had told them just to do whatever, these filters given the age of the vehicle and what the service book states should have been checked!!!!! There is no record in the service book of what has been done just a stamp. Our old Rover had chapter and verse written down re every job and yet this dealer derided my 'service' record as it was not stamped by a dealer.  BUT WHAT PRICE A DEALERS STAMP? It really means absolutely nothing.

[guest5040]

With only service stamps in the book and no invoices for the services one could argue that the claim of a full service history is stretching it. Let me give you my example when I bought my Jazz in September 2014. The previous owner left in the car an A4 binder with polypockets filled with every receipt for work carried out, or for any accessories that he had purchased. (this was pretty comprehensive, wiper blades, winter check, screenwash etc.) The last service was in March 2014 and according to the invoice for the second year service a new air filter was added. Whilst at the dealership (non Honda) I removed the air filter cover from the engine and checked the air filter. As the vehicle had only done 3000 miles from service to when I became the owner it was very clean (as expected). My daughter, who is autistic is carrying on this tradition as she is fascinated by order and detail, and when I sell in my Jazz in 4 years time, I intend to be able to show the next prospective buyer the detail and care my Jazz has had  with a tome outlining every expenditure on the vehicle!

In February my Jazz is due for a service, and as I have changed vehicle brand I do not know what my local Honda Dealership is like for servicing. With that in mind I spent yesterday marking the pollen, air filter, and oil filter with a UV pen with the current date. I will also mark a wheel nut on each wheel to ensure that the wheels are removed and brakes etc. are inspected, as well as the pads and disks nearer service time. This will ensure that the parts that they are going to charge me for will actually be fitted to my vehicle and not be sat on the shelf for the next unsuspecting customer!

I have no doubt that the Honda dealership in my area is above board, but I have read too many horror stories of shoddy servicing from main dealers and independents to blindly hand over a few hundred pounds every service without making a few basic safeguards as described above. I will add to this post on February 2015 when my service has been completed.

Ps. Having seen the attention the previous owner had given to his Jazz was one of the factors that persuaded me to purchase the vehicle. Anybody who keeps meticulous records is more likely to have looked after the car than one without (In my opinion).

[Jazzdriver]

Great.  Do let us know the outcome.  One thing you can be sure dealer staff can do is add washer fluid, which for some reason costs 30X what we would pay in Halfords.

[guest4078]

I think that a 'full main dealer service history' is only useful if or when you need to argue the toss over a warranty claim. Otherwise, a main dealer is no more or less reliable than any other motor trader. Personally, I would prefer to do it myself or use a trusted local workshop. So I agree with you, don't mean a thing.

In our experience, Honda dealers do seem more honest to deal with than some other marques. They don't for example, try to take the dodah if the customer is a woman, at least our local one doesn't. However, whilst they do complete work paid for, they are not above replacing parts that do not need replacing. They replaced wiper blades at a service as damaged when I had checked them just before driving to the service, and they were fine.

As with filters, I get them from the bay, AP filters for a fiver each, you can change them x 2 a year and still be quids in over a Honda dealer supply/fit.

[Ozzie]

Just a note, I always top up the screenwash prior to services and then if its on the invoice I know they are taking the pee.

I have always told garages not to top up the screenwash, as at the first emergency stop I lose half a litre of screenwash 

[olduser1]

Your dealer will be able to let you know what parts where fitted and at what date, I would give them a chance to verify matters then decide on any action.

[Eddie Honda]

BUT WHAT PRICE A DEALERS STAMP? It really means absolutely nothing.

Exactly.

I do everything I can (which is a lot) myself. Whilst I don't record every last detail. I can probably look it up and tell you when I done every significant job on any of my vehicles (and I have a lot to keep track of).

The only use I have for main dealers is for sourcing genuine parts.

[culzean]

my views on full service history are well know,  i have found exactly the same thing as you on 3 / 4 year old cars from dealer with FSH.   Black air and pollen filters and on one car the oil filter was very rusty (on the outside / hope not inside as well LOL)

[guest5079]

Thank you all for your supportive comments. I had thought of contacting the previous owner. When we bought the Rover, we part exchanged a Citroen ZX Volcane auto with 120,000 on the 'clock'. The poor old thing was suffering from the good old French iron oxide. We clocked up 60,000 miles and my Wife loved it. The garage, a local large retailer of second hand cars offered us £300. To be perfectly honest as much as we thought our car was better than all the others we were being realistic. So I said to the salesman with tongue in cheek what about full service history? Oh well make it £400. This service history was merely the same as the Rover. Everything written down, date. mileage and job/parts. The Rover had been given a thorough going over by them with it all documented prior to sale. A year later, as the auto transmission fluid was up for change, I contacted to people that sold us the Rover and just asked in the light of all that had been done, had the transmission fluid been changed as I didn't fancy paying out unnecessarily. A very polite, No as the time/ mileage wasn't up at the point of sale it hadn't been done. I wrote and thanked them.  NO, I was not on the scrounge but like the next man I don't like spending unnecessarily. Yet here we are with a Honda main dealer telling me my service record was not worth the paper it was written on, which is ironic as it seems neither is theirs. I will keep you posted of any(if) response when I send the 'dirty' ones back, for their observations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chrisc]

The workshop stamp is one of the most easily faked piece of "evidence" that the car has had a regular service.  Several unscrupulous dealers were found to have rubber stamps made to cover 15 makes of cars and then presented them as "full service history".  Trouble with that is that is makes people even more suspicious of used car dealers in general, who are as a rule not the top of the tree in the trustworthy stakes

[peteo48]

I am often very wary of what has, and has not, been done by dealers pre sale of a used car. My own example was the last service done prior to my taking delivery of the car. It had been done, according to the book, about two months before I bought it. Further checks showed that they did this almost immediately after taking the car in as a part ex. The car was 3 years old and was due, on time basis alone, a brake fluid change. This had not been ticked off in the service book.

When I booked the car in for its first service - due 10 months after I had bought it - I asked about the brake fluid. The service manager said they had serviced the car before I took it over and I could "rest assured" that it had been done. It was only then I noticed that the official dealer stamp had not been placed in the book. They said that this must have been an oversight and they would stamp it up for me if I called in.

I just wonder if the sales staff had marked the service as being done to save money although, to be fair, the oil was pretty clean so they had done at least that.

In short, the service history is better than nothing but it doesn't really tell you what has actually been done and I worry about services done pre delivery.

[guest5079]

I did say that I was going to send the air and cabin filters back to the dealer. Unfortunately, I succumbed to some evil bug that is doing the rounds. I will send them off after Christmas
I do feel the car has benefited from the air filter being replaced BUT, shock horror, quite by accident I found that when the air filter is replaced, apart from the computer being reset, the computer has to be retaught idle speed etc. Well, the tick over is fine and performance seems a little better and the fuel needle isn't moving so fast. Was I lucky?
Our old Rover had to be reprogrammed if the battery was disconnected but the Siemens system did not need to be reprogrammed after an air filter change.
Comments?

[VicW]

shock horror, quite by accident I found that when the air filter is replaced, apart from the computer being reset, the computer has to be retaught idle speed etc.Comments?

Really ??

Vic.

[guest5079]

Yes, I was a little surprised.

HOWEVER reading the handbook, although it shows how to change the air filter, it makes NO mention of computers and their education. So, another way for a dealer to show you how difficult it is to do a job and rack up the costs.
Sorry, if i sound cynical.

[culzean]

Modern ECU's are so clever and have feedback from so many sensors on the engine that it knows exactly what is going on all the time,  a little thing like replacing the air filter won't fool it, the mixture of fuel and air going into the engine is monitored mainly by Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor in throttle body and the oxygen sensor in exhaust system which tunes fuel injector duration to optimise fuel efficiency and exhaust emissions.

Some many scare stories from dealers nowadays to get people to take the car into them all the time and pay through the nose for work that doesn't need doing.