Deals on 2014 Jazz?

[culzean]

“Nissan was in a dreadful state but was rescued by the Qashqai. The styling of the CR-V didn’t help it compete with products like this. And the CR-V was too expensive to make. Nissan used a bog standard car design and put a tall body on it mimicking the looks of an SUV.

I know a few people with Qashqai,  one is falling apart at 4 years old,  one had the engine blow up after 12 months and one (quite rightly) described his Qashqai as 'an Almera on stilts' but with more rattles - every car makers has ups and downs and gets it wrong,  some like GM and Ford USA have got it dramatically wrong.  Nissan nearly went bust before Qashqai was born,  and the Nissan Juke is actually a very small car on stilts .   Honda have never sold well in Europe but the rest of the world shows a different picture.  They are correct about the Civic 9th generation - it is not a nice looking car, it may ride better than the ground breaking 8th generation model, but I drive a late 2011 8th gen Civic (last of the good ones) and it is a great car in all respects - I don't know where the motoring journalists get their reports from.

[madasafish]

If you read any and all of road tests  - and yes I have a generally low impression of journalists but they cannot ALL be wrong - then Honda manages to make high quality cars which are expensive and offer little in return in terms of driver enjoyment and outstanding capabilities.

As for looks, well if Nissan can sell the Juke in the volumes it does, then looks don't matter.

As for having no diesel option on a Jazz.. and pricing it near Audi A1 levels without the interior finish.. it is stoopid..

[bill ericay]

As for having no diesel option on a Jazz.. and pricing it near Audi A1 levels without the interior finish.. it is stoopid.
.
The Audi A1 was one of the cars I test drove when I bought my jazz in 2012. I didn't find the interior finish in the Audi very different from the jazz- for instance the Audi had exactly the same steering column switchgear as the Skoda Fabia which I also tested. The  Audi also had no spare wheel and if I recall correctly, the spare wheel well in the boot was where they put the battery, so not even room for a space  saver. The Audi looks nicer from the outside , but you pay a lot more for those looks.
Finally, in terms of my comfort, most comfortable was the Jazz, followed by the Skoda, then the Audi.

It takes all sorts !

[culzean]

In USA April 2014 compared to April 2013  VW group sales were down 8.5%

In April 2014 VW Group only sold 36,700 cars in USA compared to Honda's 133,320

Don't judge Honda on European sales, they have never been big there (here ??) despite being Japans
2nd largest and worlds 5th biggest car maker.

[John Ratsey]

Might Boris's proposed pollution charge for diesel vehicles in London help enhance public awareness of the extra pollution created by diesel engines and trigger a swing back to petrol engined vehicles? This would play in favour of those manufacturers, such as Honda, who have reluctantly embraced diesel technology.

However, such a move needs to be supported by reworking of the VED bands to reflect other pollutants as would happen under normal operating conditions (and not just the manufacturer's own tests under optimum conditions).

[madasafish]

In USA April 2014 compared to April 2013  VW group sales were down 8.5%

In April 2014 VW Group only sold 36,700 cars in USA compared to Honda's 133,320

Don't judge Honda on European sales, they have never been big there (here ??) despite being Japans
2nd largest and worlds 5th biggest car maker.

Sorry but 1 month in isolation is meaningless..

"Toyota and Volkswagen both have forecast more than 10 million deliveries for 2014. Toyota sold 9.98 million vehicles last year to lead the industry for the second consecutive year, followed by Volkswagen’s 9.73 million and GM’s 9.71 million." http://tinyurl.com/kz2mw75

Meanwhile Honda sales unit?

"Honda, which sold 1.06 million vehicles in April-June, expects to sell 4.83 million vehicles for the fiscal year through March 2015."..  http://tinyurl.com/m6naw76

I rest my case: a month's sales figures are meaningless..

[culzean]

Might Boris's proposed pollution charge for diesel vehicles in London help enhance public awareness of the extra pollution created by diesel engines and trigger a swing back to petrol engined vehicles? This would play in favour of those manufacturers, such as Honda, who have reluctantly embraced diesel technology.

However, such a move needs to be supported by reworking of the VED bands to reflect other pollutants as would happen under normal operating conditions (and not just the manufacturer's own tests under optimum conditions).

Diesel has always been the darling of European governments because of its 'low CO2'  what they forget to mention is that it is high in everything else (NOx and carcinogenic particles) and when it gets spilled on the road unlike petrol which evaporates very quickly, Diesel will attack the tarmac, make the road ultra slippery and then get washed into drains and rivers.  Remember the fiasco of bio-diesel when Europe was importing palm oil from Asian countries until Greenpeace etc pointed out that thousands of square miles of rainforest were being cut / burnt down to clear land to plant the palm oil trees Dohhhhhhhh !   Diesel was never encouraged or liked by Japanese and Americans for cars, because unlike Europe they knew that Diesel fumes are very nasty for environment.  You can see why Honda was reluctant to produce diesels because in their biggest markets, Japan, USA and Asia no-one liked diesels.

I have been behind older and modern diesel vehicles and at the first sign of a hill or accelerating away from lights etc. out belches the grey and black smoke,  my brother is a diesel fan and even he was dismayed when someone was following him one night and he saw the smoke from his car in the headlights of the car behind. If only diesel drivers could be 'behind themselves' more often they would soon start to question the governments and auto-manufacturers description of Diesels as 'the green option'.  Another thing is,  a standard 'barrel' of crude oil produces around 20 gallons of petrol, but only 9 gallons of Diesel (the balance is kerosene, Tar and other chemicals - food colourings etc.)

[John Ratsey]

Diesel has always been the darling of European governments because of its 'low CO2'  what they forget to mention is that it is high in everything else (NOx and carcinogenic particles) and when it gets spilled on the road unlike petrol which evaporates very quickly, Diesel will attack the tarmac, make the road ultra slippery and then get washed into drains and rivers.  Remember the fiasco of bio-diesel when Europe was importing palm oil from Asian countries until Greenpeace etc pointed out that thousands of square miles of rainforest were being cut / burnt down to clear land to plant the palm oil trees Dohhhhhhhh !   Diesel was never encouraged or liked by Japanese and Americans for cars, because unlike Europe they knew that Diesel fumes are very nasty for environment.  You can see why Honda was reluctant to produce diesels because in their biggest markets, Japan, USA and Asia no-one liked diesels.

I agree that the Euro legislators focused too much on the CO2. However, air pollution problems in certain parts / times in UK are starting to draw attention to the other impacts of the diesel engine - suggestions to reduce motorway speed limits when air pollution is too high weren't greeted with enthusiasm but help highlight the cause.

I'm sure that the UK gov't could encourage a reversal of the trend by tweaking the VED bands to acknowledge the extra pollution by setting thresholds that go beyond the Euro 6 emissions limits and also penalise the older diesel vehicles.

[Rory]

According to Automotive Industry Data (AID) editor Peter Schmidt, Honda has missed the boom in SUVs in Europe and its CR-V is too expensive and lacks the appeal of products like the Nissan Qashqai.

I think the problem with CRV is it's really an American car, it sells well there, but (like Jazz/Fit) it's far, far, cheaper in the US.

[chrisc]

I waited until the financial year-end of our local Honda dealer.  They were getting rid of last year's model and demo cars for up to 27.5% off the floor price.  So I got a brand new car, had never been driven but it was the previous year model at 22% off.  Since it was registered during the current year for the first time, it is considered a current year model for resale purposes

I could not detect what the differences were between the year models.  There were 2 new colours offered and a sunroof and satnav, but all add-ons

[culzean]

In USA April 2014 compared to April 2013  VW group sales were down 8.5%

In April 2014 VW Group only sold 36,700 cars in USA compared to Honda's 133,320

Don't judge Honda on European sales, they have never been big there (here ??) despite being Japans
2nd largest and worlds 5th biggest car maker.

Sorry but 1 month in isolation is meaningless..

"Toyota and Volkswagen both have forecast more than 10 million deliveries for 2014. Toyota sold 9.98 million vehicles last year to lead the industry for the second consecutive year, followed by Volkswagen’s 9.73 million and GM’s 9.71 million." http://tinyurl.com/kz2mw75

Meanwhile Honda sales unit?

"Honda, which sold 1.06 million vehicles in April-June, expects to sell 4.83 million vehicles for the fiscal year through March 2015."..  http://tinyurl.com/m6naw76

I rest my case: a month's sales figures are meaningless..

Just as meaningless as comparing 'vehicles' with 'cars' - GM (top maker) enjoys 17% of car sales in USA,  Honda 10%, VW group just over 6%

Honda do not make 'vehicles' (lorries, LCV, vans etc) they make 'cars' - if you strip out cars from vehicles the picture changes a lot.

[guest4871]

Honda are almost alone in the car industry not to have tie-ups with other manufacturers, 

Lest we forget, Honda learnt much from their experiences with British Leyland which do still influence them today.

[culzean]

Honda are almost alone in the car industry not to have tie-ups with other manufacturers, 

Lest we forget, Honda learnt much from their experiences with British Leyland which do still influence them today.

I was involved with Rover group during the Honda years,  as an engineer for an automation company fitting robots into Rover car plants (Longbridge and Cowley)  - I'm sorry to say that although Rover had some fine engineers it was pretty much one way traffic as far as far as transfer of good manufacturing practice, build quality and most of all engine technology was concerned (Rover was that bad at making cars that it made a loss on every one it sold - all funded by taxpayer bailouts).  Rover did bring out some reasonable engine designs  based on Honda input,  but sad to say, the best way to make an MGF into a decent car is to fit a Honda type R engine into it (same engine mountings),  won't improve the handling and the rest of the car though,  but at least it will be more reliable. 

The best models of that period, Triumph Acclaim and Rover 213 / 216 models were based on Honda Ballade model.  Rovers warranty claims reduced from an avalanche (Tsunami ?) to a trickle after they started making Honda based models.  The Rover 213 was the one to get, it had the sweet and durable Honda 1.3 litre engine and gearbox, not the unreliable Rover 1.6 litre engine.

[Pine]

I had a Rover 213 with a Honda 1.3 engine and automatic gearbox, metallic gold, it was a lovely car. One of the best old style automatics I ever had.

[madasafish]

I had three in a row company Rover 800s.. (no choice in teh matter).

The list of things that went wrong  - new cars and sold when three years old  - was so long I cannot recall them all.. BUT here is what I recall:
electric window switches failed - at least 15 times,
dashboard squeals/squeaks noises - LOTS
clutch failure - stationary in our garage .. centre plate collapsed.
Head Gasket failure
Exhaust failure
Turbo input pipe fell off (on a brand new car)
Engine boiled in traffic.
Air con failed.

and so on.

Excrement.