Author Topic: Replacing plugs on 2010 Jazz  (Read 2020 times)

auntyneddy

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Replacing plugs on 2010 Jazz
« on: May 09, 2017, 10:06:16 AM »
Although the car hadn't done the 70,000 plus miles it is now 6 1/2 years old. So I decided to replace the plugs  as per the book. No 4 is a bit difficult with arthritic hands but all else quite straight forward.
After I had replaced the plugs and coils I just started the car and switched off immediately to make sure all was well before I put all the rest back.
When I came to use the car a couple of days later, it was a real pig to start, MY FAULT I should have let it run for a short while.
What a difference to the car? Even my Wife noticed the difference. Well worth the 50 off E bay.

So while it may be obvious, don't start the car and switch it off immediately let it run for a short while.

culzean

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Re: Replacing plugs on 2010 Jazz
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2017, 01:22:36 PM »
Just replaced the Iridium plugs on my Civic 1.8 at 60,000 miles - nothing looked wrong with old plugs but as you say 'what a difference'   - Could not believe how much perkier it felt (and the Civic is pretty perky anyway).

Got me wondering now if although the plugs are supposed to last 70 to 75K is it more benefit to change them earlier,  I certainly think so now and will be changing the plugs in 'her indoors' Jazz Si around 60K.

@ Auntyneddy Do you have link to spark plug seller website for Jazz plugs.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 01:48:37 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

auntyneddy

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Re: Replacing plugs on 2010 Jazz
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2017, 12:59:58 PM »
CULZEAN
I am sorry but S*DS law is in action. I always shred my PayPal invoices once I have checked them off. I have gone back to my Ebay account and all I can find is    awesomesource66 (436) I don't know if you can work back from that. I paid 49.99 for the DIFR6D13/NGK94167 plugs. I have gone back to Ebay but can't find their entry The supplier was very helpful and sent the plugs tracked mail as in their words the value needed it. There is another entry but at 55.
Sorry I can't be  of more help.
PS I checked the old plugs and they were still within limits, nor were the tips rounded but they were worth changing.

d2d4j

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Re: Replacing plugs on 2010 Jazz
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2017, 01:20:52 PM »
Hi auntyneddy

If you log into your PayPal account, look at history, you should see the transaction you shred

I hope that helps

Many thanks

John

auntyneddy

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Re: Replacing plugs on 2010 Jazz
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2017, 01:13:08 PM »
Thank you. That is where I got what info I have from.  I was hoping I could find their entry on Ebay but no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

culzean

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Re: Replacing plugs on 2010 Jazz
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2017, 11:32:12 AM »
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pv-124730-ngk-izfr6k13-6774-iridium-ix-spark-plug-sparkplug-platinum-ground-electrode-single-plug.aspx

Opie oils do NGK for just over 50 for 4 plus delivery charge so happy with that,  have seen them for as much as 30 EACH on some sites,  even Cox motors are over 60 for 4.

This is the way I would do it, and most normal people I guess -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIz7bbMNmN0

This looks like the way NOT to do it – so many plugs and pipes disturbed,  bound to cause future problems.
I bet this guy cleans his windows by taking the glass out WTF !!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KVWyJqmL3Y

« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 11:49:13 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Replacing plugs on 2010 Jazz
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2017, 02:42:15 PM »

auntyneddy

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Re: Replacing plugs on 2010 Jazz
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2017, 11:54:57 AM »
I basically did it the same way as the You Tube BUT I used the 'DIY lower your GE8 Fit' site on Google which goes into accessing it all in greater detail. I DID NOT remove the wiper motor, Neither did I remove the hinge covers. I merely removed the wiper motor  mounting bolts to enable the metal cowl cover plate to be removed. The only thing to be careful of is the wiper mounting rubbers which have metal inserts and are partial to dropping out. I secured them with masking tape.

peteo48

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Re: Replacing plugs on 2010 Jazz
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2017, 02:54:04 PM »
Just on the durability of iridium plugs - I find myself wondering if stop/start motoring would indicate an earlier change?

culzean

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Re: Replacing plugs on 2010 Jazz
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2017, 09:25:28 PM »
Just on the durability of iridium plugs - I find myself wondering if stop/start motoring would indicate an earlier change?

It is the number of sparks that wear out the electrodes,  so stop-start should actually help prolong the life of spark plug.  Having said that I think it is better to change the plugs a bit early after my experience on my Civic where the new plugs at 60,000 miles made quite a difference.  Maybe the ceramic gets coated up with carbon when plugs are left in too long and this can track some of the spark away from the spark gap.  I was happy that the NGK Iridium plugs came out without any drama at 60K though,  shows that the special plating on the threads does work,  bought the new plugs from Cox motors,  seems you have to beware counterfeit plugs from some sources.  I will get plugs for her indoors Jazz from Opie as they are the cheapest reputable place I have found for Jazz plugs,  which (strangely) are quite a bit more expensive than plugs for Civic.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 09:36:02 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

matty vapor

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Re: Replacing plugs on 2010 Jazz
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2017, 09:48:59 PM »
Iridium plugs do not have the best performance, they do have the best wear rate. copper core are the best performance wise. the only reason iridium plugs are fitted is to save a service item on fleet cars.

If you want the best performance copper, best spark

here is some info on spark plugs

Many people come to the point where they are forced to change the spark plugs on their vehicle and face a difficult decision; copper spark plugs or those of another type? You can find spark plugs in a variety of different metal combinations, including aluminum spark plugs, iridium plugs, platinum and more. Copper core spark plugs are still the most commonly seen, however, and many people agree that they are the best. However, the advertising that accompanies the different types of spark plugs is potentially misleading, so it's important to recognize the real difference between the spark plugs in question. In order to do that, it's necessary to first learn about what the metal in the spark plug is used for.

Purpose of the Metal

The metal in a spark plug serves a single basic purpose: to channel the electric energy from the plug wire through the spark plug so that it can be forced to the engine block in the form of a spark. Therefore, any metal that conducts electricity at all could potentially be used for a spark plug. The metal should also not get too hot; one of the main problems with some metals is that they overheat quickly, causing the electric charge itself to be compromised and the spark plug to not operate as smoothly.

Copper Spark Plugs

Copper spark plugs are generally considered to have the best performance of any spark plug type. This is potentially different from what advertising companies suggest, but the other metals are, unfortunately, not as conductive in general as copper is. Platinum and iridium plugs are more likely to overheat, which causes damage to the plug components and can compromise the delivery of the spark to the engine block.

Platinum and Iridium Plugs

Platinum and Iridium plugs perform at a lower level than copper spark plugs, because they are less conductive and they tend to overheat. However, the overall longevity of these two types of metal is better than copper plugs. In reality, copper has the best performance of all three and the worst longevity. Platinum has good longevity and the worst performance. Iridium has good longevity and a performance that is decent, which is why iridium plugs tend to be more expensive than any other type. Still, the difference between these plugs in terms of overall quality is minimal, as there is a trade off for each.

Most copper plugs need to be changed every 20,000 miles or so. Platinum and iridium plugs can often go for twice that before they require changing, but the overall performance will not be as good and you may have to deal with overheating of the plugs. This is potentially not worth the added cost of both platinum and iridium spark plugs, although the decision will depend upon your preference.

no race cars use iridium plugs, the over heating cause bad combustion and power loss, also poor idle can be a direct problem with over heated iridium spark plugs.

culzean

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Re: Replacing plugs on 2010 Jazz
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2017, 11:35:46 AM »
The electrical conductivity of the copper is not really an issue on spark plugs (a lot of spark plugs, including the Jazz have an electrical resistor built into plug body to cut down electrical interference to other car components, this used to be built into plug cap or lead on older systems) - the spark is high voltage but low current - however the good thermal conductivity of copper will help to keep tip cool in extreme (race car) conditions.  I'm guessing race engine get their plugs changed every race, so life not a problem but because of the 'extreme' combustion conditions on race cars - and Iridium plugs in motorbikes have to be replaced more frequently than in a car engine for same reason) they rely on the copper to help cool the plugs,  this is not necessary in a low tune car engine, so the fact that race engines use 'copper' is pretty irrelevant for road car combustion conditions.

The benefits of Iridium far outweigh the downside for most road car uses,  the finer electrode diameters channels the spark better (the swirl in the combustion chamber can try to blow spark out, so it needs all the help it can get) - the finer electrodes also reduce the strain on the ignition coil (many GD Jazz rear coils have failed, most likely due to plugs never being changed, the gap opens up - more voltage required to jump gap - extra strain on coil insulation = failed coil).  The way the coil works is that energy is stored in a magnetic material by the primary coil (high current - low voltage), when the primary current flow is interrupted (used to be by mechanical 'points' but now is a solid state transistor or such) the magnetic field collapses - energy cannot return via primary coil so it develops a high voltage in secondary coil (low current - high voltage = the bit the plug is connected to) this voltage will keep rising until it finds an escape path (the plug gap) - if the gap is too large the voltage will spark over somewhere else in the circuit (the insulation in the coil) causing damage.

Iridium plugs keep their design gap for much longer due to the fact they resist the eroding effect of the electrical spark and combustion heat much better - this means that the ignition coil has less work to do throughout the much longer plug life - due to the fact that coils cost a lot more than plugs and a failed coil can leave you stranded my vote is for Iridium every time.  If I used copper plugs in my motorbike I would be replacing them about every 5,000 miles,  the Iridium last 15,000 - it's a no brainer.

here is quote from NGK website.

5.“Copper plugs”

“Copper spark plugs” is a term mistakenly used for a standard material spark plug. A standard material spark plug traditionally uses a nickel-alloy outer material fused to a copper core. Almost all spark plugs use a copper core center to conduct the electricity, jump the gap, and promote heat dissipation. However, as an outer electrode material, copper would not be a good choice, as it is soft and has a low melting point (resulting in a plug that would last minutes, not miles). Nearly all NGK spark plugs, including precious metals iridium and platinum, have a copper core. When one talks in terms of nickel alloys, platinum and iridium, one is referring to its durability, or how long a spark plug will last before it needs to be replaced. However, when one talks about copper, he or she is referring to its ability to conduct electricity that is needed to fire across the gap and ignite the air-fuel mixture


https://www.ngksparkplugs.com/about-ngk/spark-plug-101/5-things-you-should-know-about-spark-plugs

from same site....(plenty more videos on the site)

https://www.ngksparkplugs.com/about-ngk/videos/video-when-should-i-use-a-resistor-spark-plug


Interestingly NGK says that because of the special tri-valent plating on threads use of anti-sieze is not recommended and plugs should be installed with a dry thread, also anti-sieze acts as a lubricant and can result in over tightening of plugs.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 12:55:39 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

auntyneddy

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Re: Replacing plugs on 2010 Jazz
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2017, 02:41:59 PM »
I assumed that as the on line manual makes reference, including part nos, to Honda tools that the manual is a download of the Honda workshop manual. At the bottom of the page on plug replacement, it states 'Apply small amount of anti-seize compound to the plug threads---------'
As I could not get my torque wrench into the space I followed the instructions on the plug boxes. Using a 3/8 socket ratchet I would suggest that unless one uses brute force the plug box instructions would enable the installer to get the torque approximately correct.
Here we have a case of two expert opinions, one from the plug manufacturer and one presumably from the car manufacturer.
As always it would be nice if perhaps they got together.

culzean

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Re: Replacing plugs on 2010 Jazz
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2017, 05:14:56 PM »
For a normal life 'copper' spark plug (presumably without the special long life tri-valent thread plating) maybe anti-seize is still a good idea to stop plating bonding with aluminium of cylinder head.  Maybe NGK think that with their plugs anti-seize not needed and may interfere with heat transfer from plug to head.  I will not use anti-seize on iridium plugs because there was no sign of it on civic plugs I just changed and they came out no drama.

Having looked at Honda Fit (USA) forum,  they are replacing their plugs at around 150,000 miles - wonder what the difference in plugs is (they get the 1.5VTEC engine,  maybe it is easier on plugs).  I know you can get Denso and NGK 'tough' plugs that can go over 100K, but 150K is mind boggling.

https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/2nd-generation-ge8-specific-diy-repair-maintenance-sub-forum/73214-diy-get-access-spark-plug-2009-sport.html

read this bit as well,  shows you how to get access.....
https://www.fitfreak.net/forums/2nd-generation-ge8-specific-diy-repair-maintenance-sub-forum/33846-diy-lower-your-ge8-fit.html
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 10:03:46 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

auntyneddy

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Re: Replacing plugs on 2010 Jazz
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2017, 09:24:28 AM »
The 2nd link CULZEAN refers to, is the one that can be accessed via Google. In fact it has jogged my memory, it was on the fitfreak site where I first found the link.
If you ignore the bits that don't matter I found it very easy to follow, in fact I downloaded it for my 'reference book' to be kept for any future foray to the back of the engine.
Incidentally it illustrates in the first link where anti seize is shown, how easily us poor mutts can be confused.
In the first link it speaks of special grease for electrical connections. I can only find NO-OX-ID which although available in the UK 20 plus postage is a bit much.
Are there any alternatives to this special grease available in the UK at a reasonable price. In most cases we motorists only need a small tube.

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