Starting issues

[Nixtoo]

This is a horrible position to be in, you have my sympathy. My decision to buy a Honda this time around was partly based on their reputation so this kind of story is a bit worrying. It is of course up to you whether you wish to pursue this, but do please make sure you understand your rights. For example, the following isn't quite correct:

As it's beyond 6 months we have no right to reject it, it was reported within 6 months but we had no evidence

The issue (under the Consumer Rights Act) is whether the fault was there at the time of purchase. From the Which? link, if you're within 6 months you don't need proof, it's up to the retailer to prove it wasn't.  If you reported it within 6 months, with video evidence, that would indicate to any normal person that the fault did exist very early in the car's life. After 6 months it's more complicated, the onus of proof is on you so you may need to get an independent report, but that doesn't mean you don't have a valid claim against the dealer ... and you have 6 years to make that claim.

Out of interest, if they said you weren't starting it correctly, what advice did they give you about the correct procedure ?

We were told to switch the ignition switch to position 1 wait at least a second or two then start. They also said in position 1 the lights came on, they don't (that's position 2). It felt like a 'fob off' to be honest.

The dealer has had the car in twice (overnight) they can not recreate the fault. It took a while for us to video it (it would only do it when we forgot to record). So as they can find no fault they couldn't do anything.
After 3 Jazzes this is likely to be the last. The dealer has made us an offer but having bought a new car last year we weren't expecting to have to pay out more the following year. If it solved the problem I'd do it, but I'm not convinced another won't do the same!

[ColinB]

Does the right of redress against seller (rather than manufacturer) apply for second hand goods when the item was outside manufacturers warranty?

As far as I can tell from the Which? link I posted earlier, the Consumer Rights Act doesn't differentiate between new or second-hand or the presence or absence of a warranty. They do have a specific page relating to second-hand cars though:
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand--car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights
Your problem, if you bought the car three years previously and you want to use the Consumer Rights Act, would be proving that the problem existed at the time of purchase. However I suspect your issue is more related to components not having the expected lifespan rather than a pre-existing fault, which is (probably) a whole different world of pain.

[andruec]

We were told to switch the ignition switch to position 1 wait at least a second or two then start. They also said in position 1 the lights came on, they don't (that's position 2). It felt like a 'fob off' to be honest.

For my car that would solve the problem as long as I wait several seconds so that most of the warning lights have gone out. It's what I was doing for most of January.

However that is not 'normal starting procedure', not on a petrol and not even on a modern diesel.
It certainly isn't normal for me because I have an EX and it has a button. I'm supposed to be able to just press the button and go (with a few preconditions for safety). The button is responsible for doing all that is required to achieve normal turn over.

[Skyrider]

 So i try again and 3 to 4 seconds later it does start so maybe partially flooded. it's not a problem just a surprise when it happens which is why I notice it.

I think flooding is the problem, as I mentioned in andurec's thread.

[Nixtoo]

I've added a poll, to see how wide spread the issue is. If it's rare then it would be worth us swapping the car.

[guest1372]

We were told to switch the ignition switch to position 1 wait at least a second or two then start. They also said in position 1 the lights came on, they don't (that's position 2).

... solve the problem as long as I wait several seconds so that most of the warning lights have gone out.
However that is not 'normal starting procedure', not on a petrol and not even on a modern diesel.

Turn key, wait for dash witness lights to extinguish (Key, ABS, SRS etc.) then turn to starting position has been standard procedure since Mk1 - I remember being told this during my handover from the supplying dealer in 2002 and assume it applies to all Hondas.  I hear the fuel pump run until it clicks to a stop.  I assume this is to get the high pressure fuel rail circuit up to pressure and make sure there is fresh fuel to squirt in on first ignition.  It's possible that other valves, actuators and sensors are exercised and checked during this period (e.g IAC, EGR).

Does the push button start not have a built in pause?

Survey: Does anyone press the accelerator while starting? Never needed to in my Jazz (different story in an old MG).
--
TG

[d2d4j]

Hi

We have a jazz si 2013, never press accelerator and starts first time. Only had jazz August 2016

Many thanks

John

[mikebore]

Survey: Does anyone press the accelerator while starting? Never needed to in my Jazz (different story in an old MG).
--
TG

Mk 3 CVT, parked outside all year, never wait for lights, never press accelerator, always starts first time (so far, 9000m since new in June)

[andruec]

We were told to switch the ignition switch to position 1 wait at least a second or two then start. They also said in position 1 the lights came on, they don't (that's position 2).

... solve the problem as long as I wait several seconds so that most of the warning lights have gone out.
However that is not 'normal starting procedure', not on a petrol and not even on a modern diesel.

Turn key, wait for dash witness lights to extinguish (Key, ABS, SRS etc.) then turn to starting position has been standard procedure since Mk1 - I remember being told this during my handover from the supplying dealer in 2002 and assume it applies to all Hondas.

I have never been told that and have never done it. I was aware that older diesels sometimes have a delay while the coils warm up (whatever the hell that means) but for every car I've owned or driven over the last thirty years I just put the key in and immediately turn it as far as I can they usually fire up and are running in a second, maybe two seconds if the battery is a bit knackered.

Does the push button start not have a built in pause?

There is a brief electric whine from somewhere behind the dash but I think that's the steering lock (it's not the pump, that's a lot quieter and comes from the engine compartment) but the engine starts turning over within half a second. If I choose to manually take control I have to wait three or four seconds before any warning lights start going out.

So it's:
Push.
Whirrr.
Thacker, thacker,
Vroom.

Although at the moment instead of 'vroom' it's more like 'mumble, mutter, vroom'

With a single button push the engine is usually running within a second, maybe a second and a half.

Survey: Does anyone press the accelerator while starting?

Not me. The only things I press are the brake pedal and the starter button.

[andruec]

I'll add that the ignition doesn't come on until the whine stops so the button at least is not waiting for anything. It just goes straight to turning the engine over.

[Skyrider]

The fuel pump is in the fuel tank, I have not heard mine running. Not sure what you are hearing in the engine compartment, radiator / AC fan?

[golfer]

on the honda website,that i think must be far east /Australia, there is notice of a recall on early mk3 cars, some 150,000 with ignition problems caused by degradation of the plug top coils there is also a recall on some early mk3 cvt gearboxes ,that could loose acceleration and lock up does not specify the cause,but maybe of interest to some out there

[Skyrider]

Hopefully they were sorted before it went on sale in the UK. I am one of the "occasionally" ones in the survey above,  I have had three poor starts in six months of daily use, one self inflicted. It's my first petrol car for thirty odd years, if that's the biggest problem I am not concerned.

[Skyrider]

Problem solved!

After five unsuccessful attempts to start my jazz I called the Honda breakdown number (the AA), the car was on my drive. The big yellow van arrived in 15 minutes and having explained the situation to the AA guy his reply was it sounds like one of our regular Monday morning call outs. He got into the car floored the accelerator and started the car, asking me to confirm there was a cloud of smoke from the exhaust. The car was suffering from cold shunting on the drive, often done on weekends and resulting in the Monday morning call outs. I was advised to avoid stopping the engine while it is cold and on choke especially repeatedly as it floods the engine and flooring the accelerator cuts the fuel supply in these circumstances allowing the engine to clear itself of excess fuel.

[mikebore]

This happened a lot with a Micra we used to have. The RAC man gave the same explanation. His solution was to take out the fuel pump fuse (so no more fuel was being pumped in) and crank the engine to de-flood it. Interesting that your AA man said that flooring the accelerator would cut the fuel supply. Maybe the Micra was different.

My wife staggered me later on by doing this herself when it happened while I was away.

I am very wary about shunting any car for this reason, but sometimes it has to be done, and so far it has never happened to either of our Jazzes.