Poll

Have you experienced starting issues with the mk3 Jazz?

Yes
1 (9.1%)
No
7 (63.6%)
Occasionally
3 (27.3%)

Total Members Voted: 10

Voting closed: February 10, 2017, 11:06:18 AM

Author Topic: Starting issues  (Read 16868 times)

Nixtoo

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Starting issues
« on: February 07, 2017, 06:22:24 PM »
We've had an intermittent fault on our s model since it was about a month old. It takes an extended time to star once you turn the key before it catches. It has also started and died a couple of times and once refused completely (AA got it going).
Honda UK were pathetic, told us it was normal and won't do anything.
The dealer has been a little better, they have offered us a new car for a reasonable amount.
Has anyone else had the same issue? Don't really want to spend more if the car does the same!
Link to issue
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 11:05:23 AM by Nixtoo »

Skyrider

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Re: Starting issues
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2017, 06:48:36 PM »
Mine does that occasionally, but has always started after a few seconds, sounding as if it would rather not start. It then runs perfectly.

andruec

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Re: Starting issues
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2017, 09:46:30 PM »
Yay! Another victim. I'm so happy!

Er...

I've had issues starting as have several others. Mine seems to play up when it's not summer. Mostly it fires quickly but runs at low revs for a half a second before picking up to something sensible. Occasionally the revs are so low that it stalls and needs a second attempt.

On the second attempt it always fires up immediately.

I've also found that if you switch the ignition on first and wait several seconds the problem doesn't occur.

My original thread.
My follow up thread.

For a while I thought it was just me but we now have two or three people experiencing this. I've even experienced it with a courtesy car as the later thread mentions. That thread also has a link to what mine usually does.

It's never let me down but I do find it a bit disconcerting that so many dealers are expressing mystification and claiming they've never heard of it before.

ColinB

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Re: Starting issues
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2017, 09:49:29 PM »
Honda UK were pathetic, told us it was normal and won't do anything.
What ?? Since when is a car that refuses to start considered "normal" ?

I'm assuming the car is a new-ish Mk3 that's still under warranty ? If it's been doing this since new, and you've reported it to both Honda UK and your dealer and they've not been able to fix it under warranty, then you would seem to have a good case for rejecting it because a car that doesn't start is clearly not fit for purpose. Do some research on your rights (this is a good place to start: http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act), go back to your dealer and tell him not to be so stupid.

Nixtoo

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Re: Starting issues
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2017, 07:00:57 AM »
As it's beyond 6 months we have no right to reject it, it was reported within 6 months but we had no evidence. Honda UK have seen two videos and told us we were starting the car incorrectly. Which I said was rediculus in over 20 years of driving I've never had this issue before!
They also said that our only redress at this stage was the ombudsman and looking at the info on line they wouldn't find in our favour.
We now have the dilemma do we shell out 3.5K on a new one (16 to 17 plate and we've done 14k in it) and risk the same problem occurring, live with it (it does worry me) or trade in for a different make. After only owning Jazzes since 2003 it very annoying!
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 07:02:30 AM by Nixtoo »

Skyrider

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Re: Starting issues
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2017, 08:23:34 AM »
The problem we have (apart from occasionally poor starting) is that it is an intermittent fault, notoriously difficult to reproduce and diagnose. The only hope is that it leaves fault codes in the engine ECU, but some faults don't. :-(

ColinB

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Re: Starting issues
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2017, 08:33:28 AM »
This is a horrible position to be in, you have my sympathy. My decision to buy a Honda this time around was partly based on their reputation so this kind of story is a bit worrying. It is of course up to you whether you wish to pursue this, but do please make sure you understand your rights. For example, the following isn't quite correct:
As it's beyond 6 months we have no right to reject it, it was reported within 6 months but we had no evidence
The issue (under the Consumer Rights Act) is whether the fault was there at the time of purchase. From the Which? link, if you're within 6 months you don't need proof, it's up to the retailer to prove it wasn't.  If you reported it within 6 months, with video evidence, that would indicate to any normal person that the fault did exist very early in the car's life. After 6 months it's more complicated, the onus of proof is on you so you may need to get an independent report, but that doesn't mean you don't have a valid claim against the dealer ... and you have 6 years to make that claim.

Out of interest, if they said you weren't starting it correctly, what advice did they give you about the correct procedure ?

andruec

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Re: Starting issues
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2017, 08:48:17 AM »
As it's beyond 6 months we have no right to reject it, it was reported within 6 months but we had no evidence. Honda UK have seen two videos and told us we were starting the car incorrectly. Which I said was rediculus in over 20 years of driving I've never had this issue before!
I agree. I class mine only as an irritation simply because nine times out of ten it does start first time. Maybe even nine point nine times out of ten. The occasional fail has always been followed by a 'keen sounding' success that reassured me.

I've never had to call out the AA or fear that it would let me down. In your situation I would definitely be pressing the dealer and Honda hard. I had thought mine was the worst example but yours disproves that. Have you tried leaving the vehicle with the dealer overnight? If the dealer didn't manage to replicate it you could try yourself. The devices that read the on-board diagnostics are pretty cheap these days. Maybe buy one and capture that information yourself. There might not be warning codes but I assume there'd be trace diagnostics that pointed to the problem.

If not..who do we progress it to? I'd be happy to add weight to any complaint. Maybe if enough of us complain Honda will have to take it more seriously.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 08:51:15 AM by andruec »

mikebore

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Re: Starting issues
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2017, 08:55:55 AM »
When I was preparing to take on Honda about the premature failure of my CVT box, Honda UK advised to to start with the Motor Ombudsman:

https://www.themotorombudsman.org

I never did this because the local dealer made me a very good offer for the broken car against a new car, but I was certainly about to use it.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 08:59:43 AM by mikebore »

Skyrider

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Re: Starting issues
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2017, 09:02:05 AM »
When I was preparing to take on Honda about the premature failure of my CVT box, Honda UK advised to to start with the Motor Ombudsman:

https://www.themotorombudsman.org

I never did this because the local dealer made me a very good offer for the broken car against a new car, but I was certainly about to use it.

That sounds to me like classic blame dodging and delaying tactics. It is not Honda UKs problem anyway, the dealer is responsible for any claim, and I would be surprised if they did not have insurance cover for duff cars. It is up to the dealer if they claim from Honda UK.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 09:11:03 AM by Deeps »

mikebore

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Re: Starting issues
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2017, 09:06:00 AM »
When I was preparing to take on Honda about the premature failure of my CVT box, Honda UK advised to to start with the Motor Ombudsman:

https://www.themotorombudsman.org

I never did this because the local dealer made me a very good offer for the broken car against a new car, but I was certainly about to use it.

That sounds to me like classic blame dodging and delaying tactics.

mikebore

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Re: Starting issues
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2017, 09:08:57 AM »
When I was preparing to take on Honda about the premature failure of my CVT box, Honda UK advised to to start with the Motor Ombudsman:

https://www.themotorombudsman.org

I never did this because the local dealer made me a very good offer for the broken car against a new car, but I was certainly about to use it.

That sounds to me like classic blame dodging and delaying tactics.

I saw it as the opposite, cut the intermediate skirmishing and escalate to an arbitrating third party.

ColinB

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Re: Starting issues
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2017, 09:20:40 AM »
It is not Honda UKs problem anyway, the dealer is responsible for any claim, and I would be surprised if they did not have insurance cover for duff cars. It is up to the dealer if they claim from Honda UK.
Said it before I could ! If you've bought a faulty product, your right of redress is against the person who sold you that product not the manufacturer. Doubtless the dealer would pursue a parallel action against the manufacturer, but that's his problem not yours.
From my own experience with the infotainment system error saga, Honda UK simply tell you to talk to the dealer anyway.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 09:25:20 AM by ColinB »

JohnAlways

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Re: Starting issues
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2017, 09:26:40 AM »
Hi all
My Mk2 usually starts within a second of turning the key, but once in a while for no apparent reason when I release the key as usual after a second it hasn't started. So i try again and 3 to 4 seconds later it does start so maybe partially flooded. it's not a problem just a surprise when it happens which is why I notice it.

just thinking maybe it's the same thing but as I say it's not often enough to worry me.
Fords I worked on used a ballast resistor to drop the voltage when starting and it almost sounds like that though of course points have now gone!

 :)

mikebore

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Re: Starting issues
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2017, 09:28:41 AM »
It is not Honda UKs problem anyway, the dealer is responsible for any claim, and I would be surprised if they did not have insurance cover for duff cars. It is up to the dealer if they claim from Honda UK.
Said it before I could ! If you've bought a faulty product, your right of redress is against the person who sold you that product not the manufacturer. Doubtless the dealer would pursue a parallel action against the manufacturer, but that's his problem not yours.

In my CVT failure situation I was the third owner. It was not sold to me by my local Honda agent. I bought it three years previously from a second hand car dealer 150 miles away. I judged that I wasn't going to get a £5000 repair from them, so was going to take Honda UK on...they seemed to expect it. Maybe if the Motor Ombudsman had got involved he would have advised differently.

Does the right of redress against seller (rather than manufacturer) apply for second hand goods when the item was outside manufacturers warranty?

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