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Off Topic (Non-Honda) / Re: Electric cars
« Last post by JohnAlways on Today at 09:15:01 AM »
This morning in Gloucestershire thick fog. My Jazz dipped headlights, intermittent wipers and no I didn't use rear fog as a Nissan Leaf was close behind. I saw 3 Nissan Leafs in the 17 mile journey, none had lights on apart from the daytime running lights so no rear lights. The leaf following me had an invisible driver, he did one wipe in 10 miles (that I could see) and disappeared from view behind the buildup of moisture on his windscreen. I confess I was unnerved, the only saving grace was the front car in a series of about 10 (convoy) was only doing about 30mph. I understand battery saving but these EV drivers are acting in a very irresponsible manner not using lights in fog.
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Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - / Re: My New MK3 Jazz
« Last post by andruec on Today at 09:04:22 AM »
I really question the benefit of the stop start function vs very short periods of idling.  I am pretty sure that, on startup, the emissions are worse (unburnt HC) and that the subsequent requirement to charge the battery will put further load (and therefore requirements for fuel) on the engine.  Of course there will be a point where it is more economical / friendly to kill the engine but I think stop/start is a pretty blunt tool for this so I typically disable it.

I am pretty sure that the main reason it is in there is to 'game' the urban fuel consumption as the test cycle includes a large amount of idling where the engine is effectively switched off for an extended period.

Tim
It's a bit of both. There have been several independent studies that suggest idle stop typically reduces overall fuel consumption between 5% and 10% depending on the vehicle and the type of driving. As far as the cost of recharging the battery is concerned that is minimal. Don't forget that the engine starts within a quarter of a second so the starter motor barely nudges the engine. The same studies typically suggest that the engine only has to be off for two to three seconds for stopping it to be worthwhile. Or put another way - three seconds of idling burns as much fuel as it takes to replace the battery charge lost by idle restart.

I'm not sure about it being fair to be harsh with manufacturers. I've now found a few articles that suggest that idling and stopping aren't that big a part of the testing so an I/S system doesn't sound like it would have much effect. But either way I wouldn't call it gaming the system since it's a pretty obvious feature. Overall is I/S worth it to us as drivers? I dunno. Given the extra cost of R&D and manufacturing costs I bet there's not a lot in it. But having bought a car with I/S it seems silly not to utilise it. Even if the end result is a greater cost to us at least using it will reduce that cost.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/features/do-stop-start-systems-really-save-fuel.html

And a final note: A competent driver that fully understands how to engage the system or how to avoid it engaging whilst still bringing the vehicle to a halt and who can anticipate traffic flow and when best to stop and hold for several seconds or when to move slowly so as to avoid stopping or to fit into a gap will get even more out of the system.

For sure anyone who keeps finding that the engine is off when they need to pull away ought to brush up on their driving skills. That ought to be a rare occurence as it is the result of failing to correctly anticipate. It happens to me perhaps two or three times a year, usually at a roundabout when someone looks like they are coming past my exit but suddenly change their minds and leave early.
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Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - / Re: My New MK3 Jazz
« Last post by culzean on Today at 08:39:32 AM »
I'm afraid that pressure and legislation from clueless politicians (driven by political expediency) forces engineers to do the wrong thing (from an engineering point of view) - such as promoting diesels as 'clean' because they are low CO2 (the Europeans pushed Diesel but the Japs knew Diesel was inherently dirty and would hit a brick wall on the emissions ) and ignoring all the other cr4p that pours out of their tailpipes.   Stop-start is another thing,  it takes no heed of the longevity of the engine and other parts of the car - just the fraction of a % 'saving' in fuel and urban emissions.

I expect you could make a similar case that the use of 0W20 oils would not be the engineers choice for ultimate engine longevity.  I believe the use of these is more to do with reduced engine friction leading to very small efficiency gains (therefore lower CO2 etc) in controlled testing rather than a requirement for thinner oil due to tighter manufacturing tolerance.

Agreed, I never use less than 5W30 oil,  my motorbike (with its water cooled highly stressed close tolerance engine) requires 10W40. 
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Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - / Re: My New MK3 Jazz
« Last post by t5nel on Today at 08:33:30 AM »
I'm afraid that pressure and legislation from clueless politicians (driven by political expediency) forces engineers to do the wrong thing (from an engineering point of view) - such as promoting diesels as 'clean' because they are low CO2 (the Europeans pushed Diesel but the Japs knew Diesel was inherently dirty and would hit a brick wall on the emissions ) and ignoring all the other cr4p that pours out of their tailpipes.   Stop-start is another thing,  it takes no heed of the longevity of the engine and other parts of the car - just the fraction of a % 'saving' in fuel and urban emissions.

I expect you could make a similar case that the use of 0W20 oils would not be the engineers choice for ultimate engine longevity.  I believe the use of these is more to do with reduced engine friction leading to very small efficiency gains (therefore lower CO2 etc) in controlled testing rather than a requirement for thinner oil due to tighter manufacturing tolerance.

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Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - / Re: Microphones for hands free
« Last post by Steve_M on Today at 08:13:01 AM »
Does anyone who has an up to date Jazz know if it has a microphone near the driver, most cars have them in the roof lining. It looks like the Jazz has two microphones on the head unit. This seems a bit poor, I have a unit like that in my car now and the microphone in the head unit does not work well.

I have attached a picture.

That picture you have shown is for a US model.

EU model Jazz have the microphone for the HFT in the roof mounted interior light module.
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The only downside is that they try to get you in early so in essence the plan is shorter. I'm currently 3 months early because it's progressively been brought forward. And you do also get a discounted mot by taking out the plan
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Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - / Re: My New MK3 Jazz
« Last post by culzean on Today at 08:02:52 AM »
I really question the benefit of the stop start function vs very short periods of idling.  I am pretty sure that, on startup, the emissions are worse (unburnt HC) and that the subsequent requirement to charge the battery will put further load (and therefore requirements for fuel) on the engine.  Of course there will be a point where it is more economical / friendly to kill the engine but I think stop/start is a pretty blunt tool for this so I typically disable it.

I am pretty sure that the main reason it is in there is to 'game' the urban fuel consumption as the test cycle includes a large amount of idling where the engine is effectively switched off for an extended period.

Tim

I'm afraid that pressure and legislation from clueless politicians (driven by political expediency) forces engineers to do the wrong thing (from an engineering point of view) - such as promoting diesels as 'clean' because they are low CO2 (the Europeans pushed Diesel but the Japs knew Diesel was inherently dirty and would hit a brick wall on the emissions ) and ignoring all the other cr4p that pours out of their tailpipes.   Stop-start is another thing,  it takes no heed of the longevity of the engine and other parts of the car - just the fraction of a % 'saving' in fuel and urban emissions.
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We bought our first Jazz from Holdcroft. A Honda approved Mk1 with 27k on the clock. It was due to have an annual service so this was to be done as part of the purchase package. I went to pick it up and was told the service was all done. Then I asked where the locking wheel nut socket was. It took them three hours to find it. Hmmm. Made me wonder about the service but they assured me it had been done, wheels off.

2000 miles later it had a health check at my local Honda dealer when it was in for some reason. They reported front pads down to the metal and discs needed replacing!

Pretty much confirmed my suspicions about the "service" it didn't have before I took delivery.

It is cheaper for dealer to skip the 'service' and then deal with the limited number of people who complain, unfortunately that is the mindset of dealers who care more for their bottom line than for their customers.
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Honda Jazz Mk1 2002-2008 / Re: Lost locking wheel nut
« Last post by olduser1 on Today at 07:35:49 AM »
Get some blu tack, make an impression of the wheel nut take to dealer for their help.
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Holdcroft of Stoke on Trent deserve top marks - very good service..

Holdcroft taking over the franchise in the Chester area is the reason why I don't see our relationship with Honda continuing. 

Off the top of my head I can think of five customer service issues we've had and they haven't been there all that long.  Only had one problem in all the years we dealt with TwoMills and they seemed mortified they'd messed up and more than compensated for it by doing the next service FOC.   Holdcroft don't seem to care less - it's very noticeable how there are less Hondas around here than there used to be.

We bought our first Jazz from Holdcroft. A Honda approved Mk1 with 27k on the clock. It was due to have an annual service so this was to be done as part of the purchase package. I went to pick it up and was told the service was all done. Then I asked where the locking wheel nut socket was. It took them three hours to find it. Hmmm. Made me wonder about the service but they assured me it had been done, wheels off.

2000 miles later it had a health check at my local Honda dealer when it was in for some reason. They reported front pads down to the metal and discs needed replacing!

Pretty much confirmed my suspicions about the "service" it didn't have before I took delivery.
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