Author Topic: Dithering tick over  (Read 3466 times)

coffeecup

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Dithering tick over
« on: February 22, 2017, 02:17:21 PM »
Hi

I have a 2010 1.4 semi auto. On tickover in gear 1st the car judders now and again, this stops if I select neutral. Tick over is about 600/700rpm.

Might it be gear oil ? done 30k

mike

applicationcen

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Re: Dithering tick over
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2017, 07:20:01 AM »
If your foot is on the foot brake it should have engaged the clutch and should not judder

If you are sitting still with no foot brakes applied then the clutch is engaged and it will start to move forward.

If it is juddering then thats something holding it back like a sticking caliper or hand brake?

coffeecup

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Re: Dithering tick over
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2017, 08:55:52 AM »
No, it's not that, it judders with my foot on the brake at any junction with first gear selected waiting to move off. If I select neutral the judder stops.

JohnAlways

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Re: Dithering tick over
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2017, 09:51:32 AM »
I don't know about the i-shift but in a manual box would be the clutch dragging / not disengaging properly. Used to get the same symptoms with a spigot bearing but don't know if the Jazz has such or anything else these days.

applicationcen

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Re: Dithering tick over
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2017, 10:32:41 AM »
No, it's not that, it judders with my foot on the brake at any junction with first gear selected waiting to move off. If I select neutral the judder stops.

I have an iShift. The only faint resemblance I see of what you describe is when the car is cold and you are pulling away in first. After that it should not recur.

The engine revs affect whether the clutch engages. If you have one foot on the foot brake and your other foot is on the accelerator the clutch will engage and this will cause juddering.

In terms of drive style - do not press both the brake and the accelerator at the same time.

If you are on a slope there is a momentary hill brake enabling you to transfer your foot from brake to accelerator with out drifting back.

If you are on a steep slope you are much better applying the handbrake and use only the accelerator to pull away while dropping the hand brake once the clutch is feeding power to the front wheels.

If your getting the juddering and not simultaneously using foot brake and accelerator you need to get it looked at

guest5079

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Re: Dithering tick over
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2017, 03:00:45 PM »
My I shift has no such problems at the moment with 50,000 miles on the clock  BUT I noticed after I bought it with 38,000 on the clock it appeared that the clutch slave cylinder looked very new.
Now dragging my mind back over the years, it does sound as though the clutch is not disengaging completely which would normally indicate either a master cylinder leaking ( which the I shift doesn't have in the normal way of things) or the slave cylinder leaking. It is not always obvious because the dust cover over the operating rod hides a slight leak. Have you checked the clutch fluid reservoir? It's very easy to get too. It might just need a top up. If it loses fluid again further investigation would be required.
Lets hope your problems are little ones.

coffeecup

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Re: Dithering tick over
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2017, 01:18:07 PM »
I will try and explain it a bit better, you can forget master and slave cylinders this is an i-shift, you can also forget engine being cold.
With an i-shift when you come to a junction or anything while driving that entails stopping the box automatically drops down the gears and ends in first, you then stop and put your foot on the brake and wait to pull off OK ?
Its while waiting that the engine shudders (only now and again) before moving off. Tick over seems OK at about 750rpm, and doesn't fluctuate when it shudders,however, if i whip it into neutral as its shuddering it stops.
To me it sounds like its trying to move, although there is no creep .

applicationcen

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Re: Dithering tick over
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2017, 03:29:33 PM »
I don't get any shuddering with the foot brake firmly pressed. It is very well behaved.

As soon as I release it to accelerate there is sometimes some clutch engagement but usually quite acceptable.

culzean

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Re: Dithering tick over
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2017, 03:36:50 PM »
I will try and explain it a bit better, you can forget master and slave cylinders this is an i-shift, you can also forget engine being cold.

The i-shift (unlike the CVT) has a standard gearbox and clutch,  it is just automated,  so if the clutch not disengaging properly it will load up the engine and try to pull against the brake,  which will try to slow engine down and may cause shuddering..
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest1372

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Re: Dithering tick over
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2017, 03:54:15 PM »
It does sound like the system is positioning the clutch ready for creep mode (gears 1, 2 & R only) but having to back off a bit, although it is maintaining the revs.

Looking at iShift trouble shooting in the service manual the first item is:
1. Check the clutch line for leaks and low fluid level.

After that it's all about system learning which requires HDS (Honda Diagnostic Software) with these procedures:
# i-SHIFT system learning (Dynamic Mode) & (Static Mode)
# Shift Change Actuator Position Learning "The transmission shift change actuator operates automatically and learns the transmission's neutral position (neutral reference) and the gear end position (from 1st to 6th and R) and stores the learning value into the TCM."
# Synchronizing Position Learning "The transmission shift change actuator operates automatically and learns the synchro-timing (determined from the change of engine torque) just before gear is applied, and stores the learning value to the TCM."
# Clutch Contact Point 1·2 Learning "The clutch actuator automatically operates, learns the initial torque application on the clutch disc, and stores the learning value into the TCM."
# Clutch Friction Learning "... sends the frictional coefficient adjustment of the initial value to the TCM"
# Clutch Contact Position 3 Learning "After the coefficient of friction is input during the clutch friction learning, the procedure is done in the same manner as in clutch contact position 2 and the final learning is performed and stored in the TCM."

These adjustments can't be done at home, but could be done at a Honda dealer and might be checked in a major service anyway.
--
TG

guest1372

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Re: Dithering tick over
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2017, 04:19:02 PM »
One other thought if you have had brake/clutch fluid replaced recently (or not had it done in years) then there is a bleeding sub-menu unique to the iShift.

i-SHIFT System Bleeding
Remove the bleeder screw cap. Attach a hose to the bleeder (A), and suspend the hose in a container of brake fluid.
Do the CLUTCH FILLING in the ADJUSTMENT MENU with the HDS.
Tighten the bleeder screw securely.
Do the CLUTCH FLUID AIR BLEEDING in the ADJUSTMENT MENU with the HDS.
Refill the brake fluid in the reservoir to the MAX (upper) level line.
Check the clutch operation and check for leaking fluid.

--
TG

coffeecup

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Re: Dithering tick over
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2017, 04:36:12 PM »
Thanks TG

Into the garage then !!!

mike

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