Clubjazz - Honda Jazz/Fit owners forum

1.4 DSI AUTO 04 PLATE ….when i stop at lights and take off again it goes for a second then kind of judders for about half a second then is okay….also when i take my foot off the acc pedal it seems to slow down quite a lot …IS THIS NORMAL ?

checked level of atf it seems fine but really light in colour almost like cooking oil? all my other autos have been a dark red colour ….any help please

by the way love the car it is awesome apart from these worries ?

Hi Wetclio.
About the only things that you can check on the auto box is the level and quality of the fluid - as you have done this and all seems OK then your only option is a quick trip to your local auto box expert - they should check it out free for you…
Hesitation with auto transmissions is often caused by a slight misfire in the engine and is difficult to identify, so it is worth replacing the spark plugs if they are coming towards the end of their 25k mile lifespan, (there are 8 of them) also the famous EGR valve in earlier posts might give you similar symptoms.
Revving the engine in neutral might give the game away, but the engine is more likely to misfire under load conditions - so this would only be a guide.
Hope this helps.

went to an autobox specialist and he said he could feel the judder but all he said he could do is replace the ATF in the box….what worries me is the violent/quick slow down with my foot off the accelerator should it slow down this quick with this gearbox (i was thinking engine braking)inside the box …any help would be great ….many thanks

it feels like the brakes are on !

If the brakes are on to produce this effect they would be getting very hot after a short period - a kind MOT tester would easily be able to put it on the brake tester and see if they are binding… or you could try on a slight slope in neutral - it should roll easily.
It sounds like you didn’t find a particularly helpful gearbox specialist.
Though I don’t often recommend it - a dealer might be your only option to get a definitive answer …..

Interesting. I am experiencing a similar problem. 3 weeks after my Honda’s 50000 mile service (the so-called biggie), my 54 plate Jazz auto now conks out when idling. Basically, it conks out anything below around 1200 revs. It also judders a bit on acceleration and is acting very strange. I’ve read that this could be a few things on a number of forums but not specifically about a Jazz. My father says he reckons this has something to do with pipes leading in and out of the air filter coming loose but I’ve yet to check as the weather has been rather inclement. I’ll let you know how I get on. Anyone else got any ideas!?

If the atf has be changed and the judder has come back it could be a problem with the start clutch within the gear box. The same has happened to mine so i contacted my local dealer and they told me about the start clutch.Its off to be replaced next week. hope this helps. trev

In this weeks Honest John’s column in the D Telegraph a reader from NZ commented that CVT transmissions were failing around 60k

A quick check on the mtce schedule for Jazz CVT states change the fluid with ATF Z1 at
80,000 km (48,000 miles) or 5 years

A further search on Google shows Honda offered two oils see below

any suggestions , or better still anyone had the CVT fluid changed ?

Local Honda agent wanted £7.00 per litre for Z1 [ plus VAT }

Dealer’s all confirm the oil for the Jazz Auto is the ATF Z1

NB this has now changed see the latest posts

only use CVT oil in your jazz Auto - CVT
it all makes sense now !

CAREFUL!!!!

I’ve owned two CVT-7 Jazz’s and I can tell you right now without any shadow of a doubt ATF-Z1 is totally the wrong oil for your Jazz CVT.

The confusion is that in your owner’s manual it will say that ATF-Z1 should be used and may be Dextron III if ATF-Z1 is unavailable. However this is now incorrect.

Honda released a Worldwide product update (PDU) that informed all dealers, and service depots to use only Honda CVT-F (Honda part number (4 litres) 0826099904HE) in all CVT transmissions in Insight, Civic IMA, HRV, and JAZZ.

ATF-Z1 should only be used in conventional, i.e. non-CVT, automatic transmissions. It is highly likely that your dealer (in the UK) will not know this. The two Honda dealers I use did not know and I had a hard time convincing them until they find out about the HONDA product update notice!

If you call HONDA UK’s customer service line they will tell you that there is only one transmission oil suitable for the Jazz CVT-7 - Honda CVT-F. There is currently (March 2008) no oil produced by another manufacturer that Honda have qualified as being an equivallent to CVT-F.

If your dealer has replaced your CVT transmission oil with ATF-Z1 get it changed immediately! It will eventually damage your CVT transmission if used long term.

I know it is very difficult to tell a service manager his job but you HAVE to in the case of UK Honda Dealers with respect to the correct CVT transmission oil to use.

If you are having your transmission oil changed, explicitly say that you wish the transmission filled with CVT-F and NOT ATF-Z1 (or equivallent). Also since CVT-F comes in 4 litre bottles, ask to get the remainder (0.8 litres) so you can “use it top-up”. That way you know it’s correct.

If you’re thinking of buying a Jazz CVT-7 that has travelled more than 50K miles, check the colour of the transmission oil (yellow dipstick, front right-hand side). ATF-Z1 is a very red colour. CVT-F is a golden-yellow with a tinge of red.

Hope all this helps you fellow Jazz CVT-7 drivers!

Well I have a ‘07? model and I checked the manual and it clearly states ‘Use Honda CVT fluid’

No mention of ATF-Z1 or dexron III

CVT requires CVT fluid - SIMPLE

Hi, I had an issue with my CVT on my Jazz and the dealer has replaced the oil with the correct one as detailed by dunkv. I just checked the service worksheet and they used the new CVT-F oil. They said if it didn’t cure the judder from the transmission they would work with me to pin down Honda on a warranty claim. Hence I think my dealer knew all about this. It was Stratstone Honda in Bradford.

Lately my jazz has starting juddering when moving away from standing position.
Initially I thought tyres were slipping. But with new tyres all round still get the same.

As there’s no clutch on automatics I’m now wondering how bad this is going to be!, any one had similar problems?

Feeling a bit lonely here!.

Has no one any suggestions on what might be going on with an automatic which judders on power application from a standing start?.

Hi Smartz.
Hate for you to feel lonely - Though I’m no Auto specialist there is obviously not one handy so here’s my 2p worth ….
Auto boxes do have clutches, though they are normally in the form of ‘bands’ - without a clutch of some form you would not be able to stand still with the engine running…
About the only thing you (or the general motor trade) can check on the auto boxes is that they are filled with the correct fluid to te prescribed level.
As you have tried tyres, the only other ‘external’ thing you can check is the engine/gearbox mountings for wear and security.
Some of the earlier autos were driven by a chain between the engine and gearbox - these were prone to jumping teeth under stress - I doubt this is the case on yours though ..
If all those are OK then it is off to the nearest auto transmission specialist.
Good luck.

You would think a CVT system would use CVT oil..rocket science....brain surgery, etc, etc  

How on earth dealers could mess that up...and miss any product update issued by Honda.

see this link
http://www.hondafitjazz.com/problems.htm

CVT malfunctions are a common problem in Jazz.

At earlier Honda maintenance manuals, recommended CVT oil was ATF-Z1. The same oil also used in conventional auto transmissions.

But now Honda wants dealers to use CVTF  (CVT Fluid) specially designed for CVT transmissions. I recommend pre 2007 Jazz/Fit owners to get their CVT oils changed ASAP.

Do not wait 80.000 km as indicated at the manual.

So now we all know the correct oil, hope all the uk dealers read Honda news/updates.

Carried out my own CVT oil change today just to be on the safe side, really is a simple DIY job, just undo the square key bolt (use the 3/8" square on the socket) near the front of the transmission to drain and then re-fill via the dipstick hole making sure you fill between the 'COLD' mark on the dipstick (approx. 3.2litres).  Thumbs up to my local Honda dealer in Ascot who were aware that I needed CVT-F oil rather than the conventional ATF type.

After my last posting, I've just gone through that nervous time getting my CVT oil changed. This time the garage new perfectly about CVT-F and everything was done as it should be.

It's still worth making clear when you book your car in for a CVT oil change that it's CVT-F oil that's going to be used.

With my own driving of CVTs, I've noticed a definite feeling of transmission "grip" after fifty or so miles after the change. I don't mean here that I'm racing around, but rather on inclines or under engine-braking the tranmission feels more sensitive than prior to the change.

So it would seem the "F" part of CVT-F's name meaning "friction enhancers" seems to be correct! Or it might be wishful thinking on my part.

Happy Jazzing :) fellow CVT-7-ers

My car was bought in September 2007 does anyone know whether CVT-F was used during it's manufacture I tried getting this info from my Honda dealer and all I got was "leave well alone" They didn't say whether they would replace the box for free if there was a subsequent box failure however.

Having raised this issue last year, step1 check the level and colour of the oil in your vehicle,old oil is dark red or brown   or ask the dealer to check and show you the oil is definitely pale red in colour.
Step2 depends on result above - I have now changed the transmission oil on both our Jazz CVt's to CVT F now sold by Honda dealers in 4litre containers . Happy days again....

When I purchase 4 litres of CVT-F oil from my Honda dealer, I'd noticed the colour was also red (certainly no hint of yellow in it).  Anyway when I'd proceeded to change the oil I'd noticed the original oil that came out my car was also the same colour (04 model) so I'd wondered if I had the correct oil anyway but changed it anyway for peace of mind.

Spoke to Honda customer services 30th June and they advise me they ..know nothing about CVT oil problems and added there is no recall valid. What the heck is going on?

Hi, I've just registered with this site, my 2004 1.4i Jazz automatic has developed a rumbling/vibration from the front wheels when the power is applied with the steering wheel turned is this a possible CVT problem that any one else has experienced?

  Sounds like a drive shaft bearing problem but that's a bit of a guess. If its still under warranty take the car back pronto and complain like mad. If not Honda drive shafts ain't cheap.'

fwiw, I bought my Chinese made car in December 2007. It has a black rubber bung fitted midway along the length of the dipstick with 'CVTF' carved into it.  The colour of the oil on the end of the dipstick looks clear to me with a tinge of red.

A friend owns a '06' plate 2006 Japanese made Jazz.  He noted his dipstick had 'ATF' marked on it.  But when he examined the colour of the gear oil, it looked like CVTF oil.

He spoke to the head workshop guy at his local supplying dealer in Essex.   Here is an edited extract of the response to my friend's questions:


"The judder issue they have seen have all been on 2002/2003 early Jazz - a flush ALWAYS solves the problem - no strip has ever been needed.  i.e. the problem never returns after a flush. His view was if the car has never had problems then leave it."

"Both ATF-Z1 and CVTF oils are red in colour - you can't tell the difference between the two."

"You can replace ATF oil with CVTF oil without need of an extra flush if you are changing the oil at the regular service interval - 75k miles (6 years) as they are the same grade."

"And finally, I gave him my chassis number which he put into his workshop software, and it told him that the car will have CVT-F3 (yes, F3) oil in the gearbox. So, it does seem I have CVT-F oil, despite the ATF printed on the dipstick bung."

"As an afterthought, just to prove you can never win, he also said they have had one or two issues with judder with the NEW CVT-F oil!!  Dunno if it was coincidental, but I presume it was with older cars perhaps."



Note that 75k miles/5 years change interval was quoted in the conversation, and yet my 2006 printed service log book supplied with my UK 2007 Jazz quotes 50k miles/5 years. (The early 2007 DVD based Honda workshop manual quotes 50k miles/4 years for European models.....)

Someone did an earlier post about this but I thought it best to start a new thread.
I have an 05 1.4SE CVT auto.

It had a recall recently to deal with a handbrake problem. When test driving afterwards it was noticed that the car juddered slightly as it pulled away. I was going to mention it at the next service. This confirmed a gearbox problem known by Honda  and is connected with the fluid used in the CVT gearbox for my model. Honda have extended warranty on this model to 7 years to deal with this gearbox issue. They carried out a CVT fluid flush and the car no longer judders. They had it back to test it. If the flush had not resolved the problem they would have given the gearbox a complete overhaul, all under the extended warranty.
So if you have a judder, get it checked soon. Hope this helps.

Hi Fido

Thank you for your post and the info given. Do you happen to know if there is any official source [website or published article] that I can quote to my local Honda dealership about this problem as I seem now to be getting this judder when I pull away, especially uphill.

Regards

Peter in Devon

Peter, the most 'official' source about this problem would be either us here or the Honest John page:

http://honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=556

Honda did (still do?) have a recall check on their website - just enter your VIN number - but it may only display information about recalls (which this problem isnt).

I doubt you will have problems getting the dealer to sort it - it is a common problem.

Many thanks, Richard, I will contact the dealer. Although a 2005 model, the car was sold to me with the benefit of a Honda twelve month warranty and I would hope any remedial work would be done under that warranty. Or am I being naive?

Peter in Devon

I have a 2005 Jazz auto 1.4. Like Fido I have have been noticing an increasing amount of 'judder' and a grinding noise as the car moved from a stationary position. This started about 2 months ago. Prior to that I have also been noticing that as the car was engaged from neutral to either drive or reverse, there was a pause before the car moved. This 'pause' became longer in time. After reading Fido's post I when to the dealer who booked the car.I had to ask for it to be done under warranty. (This was not offered to me as a recall. I has to ask), The car has just come back this afternoon and it drives as it was when new. No delay in engaging gears, no noise, no judder. I wonder what they have done!!!
However it came back with a list of several things wrong. Front bake pads are 90% worn (after 30,000miles) front disks need replacing, rear brake pads will need replacing soon and one of the ''bearings'' on the front suspension need replacing as there is excessive movement.
Otherwise I have had no trouble with the car.

 :D

Just noticed these posts. I cannot believe how good our Jazz now is after my judder was sorted out. It really is handling as well as it has ever done.
The work was described as a CVT fluid flush.

Hi Fido

Thank you for your e-mail. I tried replying to you directly but I don't think the reply was sent. Just to keep you and everyone else up to date I am taking my car in tomorrow, Saturday, morning for a "diagnostic check" and would then expect to book it in for remedial work some time next week. I am hoping that all that will be required is a change of CVT fluid and that this will be done free of charge under the extended transmission warranty. I will report back next week how I get on.

Cheers

Peter in Devon

Hi

I took my car in Saturday morning to have it checked out for the dreaded judder and it is now booked in for next week. Apparently it needs to have a new start clutch fitted which the dealer is going to do [and, of course, replace the CVT fluid] under the warranty. It seems as if I have got a result there and I will write again next week and let you know how the car is after the work. Incidentally the dealer is Rowes Honda of Weston Mill, Plymouth who so far have been very helpful and efficient in both the purchase and now with this judder problem.

Peter in Devon

I have also noticed a delay when selecting Drive before it engages, but only when the engine / transmission is cold. I do not have any judder on my 56 reg 1.4 SE CVT.  Is it worth a trip to the dealer to get it checked?  A service is not due until November.

Does anyone know when Honda started using the CVT-F fluid on the production line, I wonder if it is already in my car.

Peter,
I also use Rowes Honda in Plymouth and so far I have only had to take my car in for servicing but I get a good impression.

 

If its under warranty then its worth them checking it out

Hi

I picked my car up from Rowes Honda last night after they had had it for two days to work on the CVT [for judder on take off]. It does seem to be OK now but I am glad the work was done under the warranty as the cost would have been horrendous if I had paid for it. The only thing now since I got it back, the 'one shot' function on the drivers window does not work. Certainly it winds up and down but only if you keep your finger on the button. I would guess that Rowes forgot to re-program it when they put the car back together and re-connected the battery. Anyone one know of a DIY fix for this or do I have to take it back to be connected to their computer?

Best wishes

Peter in Devon

To fix the window

1. Start the engine. Push down on the drivers window switch until the window is fully open.

2. Pull back on the drivers window switch to close the window completely and hold the switch for a further second.

This should sort it

Jazzy B

Many thanks for the information. I just tried what you suggested and the window lifter works perfectly.

I'm off on holiday in the Jazz on Wednesday to Wales so this will be the first long trip. I'm really looking forward to it.

Peter in Devon

Peter did the dealer say what the issue was with the CVT? I tired to post this question but I seems to have been logged to another thread.... Phil.

Hi Phil

Sorry to have been so long replying but have only just got back from holiday. The part that the dealer replaced was, I believe, the 'starter clutch'. It makes sense that this is what could have caused the juddering as although the car is an automatic it must still have a clutch to stop the engine from stalling when you stop and patently it was this same clutch that was not taking up smoothly when starting off. I am glad to be able to report that the judder has now gone and. as another poster mentioned, the car seems much smoother and more responsive now.

On a more general note, Jazz performed well on our long motorway trips to Monmouthshire and gave us a comfortable, relaxed drive with a reported fuel consumption of 48 to 50 mpg for the journeys. Not bad for an automatic! The only discomfort we did feel was when we arrived back home the rather firm suspension showed up just how diabolically badly maintained the Devon roads are compared to other counties we have driven in.

Peter in Devon

My 52 CVT went to the dealer this week with a few problems.
Firstly I had the box flushed out and this has cured the vibration when pulling away (1500-2000 revs ?)The next day I had  all the plugs changed to cure engine  vibration /pinking  when under acceleration. I originally thought that this was EGR as I had it replaced after 2-3 years and it felt like the same problem  returning again but they blanked it off and there was no difference .Now what is interesting is that the dealer did the CVT flush out/fluid change FOC  under warranty ?! I have had the car 7 yrs.Apparently this is  known issue and if I have understood this correctly, if this fails to   be a permanent fix , they will replace the start up clutch ,again FOC even when out of warranty ?!
I did have the flush out done before at another dealer in Dec 2007 but the problem had recently returned so maybe it has a limited effect .
I might add that on the first occassion I was actually charged about £150 for fluid and
labour , which is what I expected as it was out of warranty. but I think that I was ripped off if it should have been FOC and I am looking into this further.
Hope that this info will be of help

Martin........only three weeks since major service.........solution.........take it back and complain like hell....... ;) joe

I am just in middle of similar problem.Garage said it was gear oil needing changed £70 as well as EGR valve £250.Car had to be towed to garage yesterday valve changed today for them to phone and say problem still there.They phoned Honda technical dept. to be told that it was probably windscreen washer corroding plugs.My car will not be ready until Monday now and I am thoroughly pissed off.Why should I have to pay out all this money while they monkey around from one SOLUTION to the next. Help

I have to say thank you to this post, and a friend who pointed me to this forum.

My mother has a '04' plate CVT, and since it was in for a recall for the electric window seal, I insisted the service technician should have a look into the CVT oil problem.  He assured me that there was no recall for any CVT problems for my car, but I told him that there is a problem when pulling off, there's a slight judder.  He told me to hang on for a minute, then came back with some more info.  He agreed to flush and change the transmission oil, and that the CVT warranty would be extended to 7 years from Honda.

Got the car back on Friday, and no more judder - RESULT!

Bump.

Please vote in the poll at the start of this topic if your Jazz has suffered from this problem. Thanks.

Hi everyone

I own a 2007 Jazz 1.5 CVT in South Africa. The car has covered 75 000km. Only recently noticed the 'judder' and had it checked at the recent 75 000km service. They replaced the CVT fluid (looks like part no: 0826099904HE) for £57 at current exchange rate. They also charged labour about £11. There has been an improvement and the judder is gone. The car is still under service plan up to 90 000km, but they did not want to give the fluid/labour FOC, as the fluid is only to be replaced at 120 000km according to service personnel. They did replace the master switch for the power windows under general recall and warranty for these models, to prevent the spontaneous short circuit in the unit that could lead to electrical fire. (A minor child burned to death in a Jazz here in SA. Very sad story indeed. Honda denied any responsibility, but very soon after the incident, this recall was advised.) Please have the power window unit checked out and replaced.


I also read about the Honda service bulletin HUK000000001117 at www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=61900 . It also mentions a warranty extension applied to it by Honda giving 7yrs or 100k whichever comes first, ALL cvt jazz`s with chassis build code GD1 from 02,03,04,05,06 are included in this extended warranty. Mine is GD3. My interweb research on this topic has now made me scared. The CVT problems have not been publicized so much here in South Africa.

My question is this: Is only the GD1 covered by this extended warranty, or all models?
Also what is the best way to approach this problem, should it return? Could I possibly have a claim to force Honda to pay costs for subsequent fluid changes or worse, the replacement of the gearbox? (Wish I could get my hands on this service bulletin HUK000000001117)

I have decided to sell my Honda Jazz. Just want to pass the info on to the new buyer. (And yes, I am going to miss my Jazz. Still a great car.)

Thanks for a great site.
Will

Hi Will and thanks for the compliment on the site. :)

The service bulletins maybe country-specific.

I think the only Jazz models avaliable here in the UK with CVT are GD1's (1.4 i-DSi engine). The 1.2 i-DSi (GD5?) is only avaliable with manual transmission and the 1.5 was never sold here.

I bought a japanese import FIT 1.4 gd1, auto,  it was registered in this country in 03 this has ATF on the dipstick, the gearbox is a straight forward stick shift i.e no flappy paddles, with P.R.N.D.S.L.  and are now experiencing a slight shudder on take off. The fluid is a light red in colour nowhere near as red as normal automatic fluid. I have tried to do a recall check using the vin number on the landing pad plate but it comes back as being invalid, will such a vehicle be valid in the UK??

No ideas on this querie??

Try phoning Honda UK.

I reckon Honda UK contact details should also be listed on this query as many would find it useful and handy!

sent email to Honda uk this was thier reply

Dear Mr Hamer

Thank you for contacting Honda UK.

Our website will only recognise UK products, with this in mind your imported Honda Fit will not be recognised.
Your local Honda dealership may be able to assist you further. with regards to any outstanding recalls once your vehicle has been logged onto our database.

Please contact your local dealer for assistance.

Brayley Honda
660 Great Cambridge Road
Enfield
Middlesex
EN1 3WX
020 8363 8000

If you have any further questions or feedback, please complete our feedback form @ www.honda.co.uk or call our Honda UK Contact Centre on 0845 200 8000, Option 2.

Kind regards

Stephen

Honda UK Contact Centre

 

Who do you ask when you want an honest opinion? We turn to the people who know us best. Honda owners.
It's why we've created Honda Friends, a club exclusively for Honda owners. And we'd be very happy if you'd join
From time to time you'll be sent short surveys, by email or post, where you can tell us your opinions so we can keep improving the things we do. You'll be invited to complete a short survey at least once a year, but no more than once a month.

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Anyone had a repeat of the problem since being 'filled' with the new oil?

16,000 miles and my judder is back!

Take it back to the dealer as it will need a new starter clutch pack which is inside the gearbox, if the judder has come back and it is still in the 7 year extended warrenty.

Good plan, I'm coming up for a MOT and service plus the switch recall, however, problem is the dealer that did the CVT oil change has gone, we have some new guys in town.

I've no doubt the oil change will show on the Honda records but I see trouble ahead, Honda service departments are so easy to fall out with.  >:(

Yes they will be able find out from honda any warrenty work that has been done on your car as it has to be agreed by honda in order to carry out the work.